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Alpina Register (Chronographs & Pre-war)

  1. the_vintage_ad Jan 7, 2022

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    I'm an avid vintage collector of the Swiss brand Alpina. Especially chronographs and pre-war time only pieces.

    Therefor I'm building a register to identify all the variations and dates of manufacturing which I'd like to share publicly if I have enough material to show conclusions.

    So I need your help! Do you own an Alpina chronograph from the 50's or older and would you like to add it to the register? Or do you own an Alpina watch with an engraved date please let me know so I can add dates to specific serial numbers.

    Thank you in advance!

    Below two pieces from my collection. A black Triangle logo dial Alpina with Angelus 215 and a very rare cased Alpina with 943 movement.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. arturo7 Jan 7, 2022

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    Those are both gorgeous!
     
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  3. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Jan 7, 2022

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    I owned this sweet cal. 13CH for a while, but sold it to a Japanese dealer friend.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. the_vintage_ad Jan 9, 2022

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    Hey Tony! You showed me this piece on WUS forums. Insanely well made piece. I wish I could have bought it from you...

    From what I have learned so far is that the 13CH was the best of the best Alpina untill they made there own movement, the Alpina 943.
     
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  5. the_vintage_ad Jan 10, 2022

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    This are as far as I know the only advertisments by Alpina about their chronographs. Funny how Alpina (the owners of the brand right now) mentioned in their own heritage book that the Alpina 4 chronograph is from 1959 but all serials I have found are pre-1946.

    [​IMG]

    Another advertisment from 1943 with a case shape very similair to the one above but couldn't verify if this is indeed the same screwback case.

    [​IMG]

    Please let me know if you have any other catalogues, brochures or ads from Alpina chronographs!
     
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  6. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Jan 10, 2022

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  7. the_vintage_ad Jan 10, 2022

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    Well... the dial and case combination is very questionable. The serial is plausible for the era but especially this era always has a Alpina signed case AND Alpina signed dial. The only variation where this isn't the case is with the anonymous A logo dials like mine in the first post.
     
  8. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Jan 10, 2022

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    I'm not sure what dates encompass the era that you are referring to, but my chrono (above) did not have a signed case, nor did the one or two others of the same style that I have seen.

    Also, those pushers are the same style as mine were.
     
  9. the_vintage_ad Jan 10, 2022

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    The 13CH variants are 40xxx serials which are way earlier then the Alpina you showed me. 90xxx should be around 1936 and this is confirmed to have Alpina dial in Alpina signed cases. I've never seen another example without a signed case later then '36.
     
  10. Tony C. Ωf Jury member Jan 10, 2022

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    The oversized example is not a 13CH, and given how few you (or anyone) have seen, I don't find the argument that all of those produced after a certain year must necessarily have been signed to be compelling.

    The case on the oversized one is consistent with other Alpina chronos, as are the pushers, and the movement appears to fit correctly. If that is a "frankenwatch", whoever put it together is an impressive artist.
     
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  11. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 10, 2022

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  12. the_vintage_ad Jan 10, 2022

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    Not saying it is a Frankenwatch but with all the pieces I have seen this is more likely to have featured a A anonymous dial then Alpina signed dial.

    Yes it is based on a V23 but it's not the same. As example you can't simply use the balance of a normal V23 for a Alpina 943.
     
  13. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 10, 2022

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    Thank you for the response. I am curious to know how the balance differs from a normal Valjoux VZ/23, and what other parts are not the same?
     
  14. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 10, 2022

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  15. the_vintage_ad Jan 10, 2022

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    It’s technical beyond my knowledge. But a few years back I brought in a 943 at a proper watchmaker.

    He mentioned a few differences which I don’t recall aside from the balance. They tried a V23 balance but that simply did not work. For him this was actually a step up from a generic V23 so I think it’s fair to call the 943 by its name.
     
  16. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 10, 2022

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    I think that a distinction must be made between the Valjoux 23 and its predecessor, which is often referred to as the Valjoux "VZ". Below is a comparison between a "type I" VZ, a "type II" VZ, and a 23. Further below is a comparison of two 943 movements. The one on the left closely resembles a "type I" VZ, whereas the one on the right closely resembles a "type II" VZ. Neither 943 closely resembles a 23, I believe. So, the question remains, did your watchmaker merely notice differences between a VZ and a 23, or did he notice differences between a VZ and a 943?

    Photos from: https://www.cliniquehorlogere.ch/fr/ and https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1940-vintage-alpina-943-valjoux-22-453819071
    valjoux vz and 23.JPG

    alpina 943 early and late.JPG
     
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  17. the_vintage_ad Jan 11, 2022

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    Yeah your correct that I have never seen the Alpina 943 as the "23" example. Either VZ 1 or VZ 2. I'm not sure if my watchmaker is correct but I do know he has these parts in stock.

    I think I'll just go and investigate this myself since I have spare 943's and make it a full breakdown.
     
  18. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 11, 2022

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    I would be curious to hear your findings. Thanks for the discussion.