I'm new enough to watches that my only awareness of fakes and counterfeits is that they exist, you need to be on the lookout for them, but that they are usually abundantly obvious and purchased in places like Tijuana or Thailand, and rarely do they fool a keen eye. Recently on OF we've been having a couple different threads discussing the Seamaster Planet Ocean Liquidmetal Limited Edition (sometimes abbreviated PO LM LE) . I love this watch, as do many of you, so after a bit of googling to gather more info on this piece, I stumbled upon an entire world of counterfeits, hiding in plain sight right under my nose. I'm sure most of you are aware of all this, but I wasn't ,and I want to be sick right now...

There are entire online forums dedicated to promoting counterfeits (or what the frauds cutely call "replicas"). They have concepts such as "trusted sellers" (i.e. who can get better counterfeits), they have their own vernacular such as "gen" and "rep" to obfuscate the more commonly used words "authentic" and "counterfeit". Most of all, I'm stunned with how sophisticated these Chinese factories are with their counterfeiting.

The PO LM LE for instance.... @Privateday7 had mentioned in a thread recently that he was looking at a real PO LM LE next to a counterfeit and even he could barely tell the difference ... that is scary, but I didn't absorb it when I read it. Now I see that Planet Oceans, including the LM LE, are a target of the counterfeiters. The counterfeit watches, in some cases, are nearly indistinguishable from the real thing based on external visual inspection; they have anti-reflective coatings, serial numbers, anti-counterfeit globe engravings, etc.

On these "replica" forums, users are advised to use a different username than they use on legitimate watch forums like OF and TRF... Forum members complain about their recently acquired counterfeits not being water-tight, or breaking in the first couple weeks and how they seller is slow to replace or refund as if they purchased the real thing, or how the watch is great but the clasp is cheesy... They talk about which factories produce the best counterfeits... WTF is going on here, you are buying crap and complain that its not as good as the real thing.... I just want to beat my head against the wall.

I've refrained from including links to these forums, or to the Chinese counterfeit factory websites which are right out in the open so as to not promote them directly. I'd like to take a flame thrower to all of it. Seems like there's nothing really that can be done about it, so I will just remind myself to never buy from an untrusted seller, ALWAYS inspect the movement since the only real truth is what is inside, and if its too good to be true in the watch world, its a fake.

 

Bigger problem is all the fake medicines and spare parts for the plane,s we fly in. Google these.

 

Look at it as useful information to help you tell the difference. There will always be fakes. I don't see any way to stop it in the near future. Our culture needs to get fed up and stop buying. I've had the luxury of traveling to China many times. The street vendors chase you down trying to sell a "Rolex". Started at $3K and come all the way down to $20. I stopped and asked one guy with very good English and asked him if he actually would have sold me the watch for $3K. A resounding YES! Counterfeit culture is very different than the collector world. No honor. On the way back to the US going through customs, you can't believe how many Louis Vuitton roller carts there are in line. I buy watch lots and have many many fakes in a box(es). Some have even fooled me (Seikos, Swiss Army, etc). Brands that I totally don't expect. Chalk it up to the imitation is flattery category.

 

Fakes are pretty easy to spot given a lot of the movements used cannot replicate the same exact layout of like the He Valve placement. Text location in relation to the dial and marker and especially the caseback is typically sloppy. The finish is also bad. I don't like those rep or homage forums.

 

No matter how good they get, one rule will always apply: If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

 

Actually it's an interesting phenomenon.

(Just to be clear I don't like replicas, don't support thier manufacture or distribution)

As you pointed out the counterfeits currently do not perform as well as the authentic ones do, so there is a justification between the prices - and of course it is price that sustains the counterfeiters appeal. Cheap people buy cheap watches. By the way, a counterfeit PO at $200 is cheap, a $200 Seiko is not. Cheap is paying $200 for something that tries to give the impression it is $7000.

What about when the counterfeiters produce an item that exactly replicates the characteristics of the original?

As I sit here in Hong Kong, I watch the factories of a wide variety of items improve qualities and strive to be better. Times are changing. Already most Swiss watch companies manufacture parts in Asia, so the companies here have the ability to make to Swiss standard parts.

Hermes hand bags are a good example of what happens. These bags in exotic skins sell in Paris for €30,000 if you can get to see one. They are made of one skin of perfect unblemished skin. They are made in Paris by a man who has trained for seven years before he is allowed onto the bag production.

You can buy a copy of this bag for €70 in Bangkok. These are easily identified. However in recent times some factories have taken the trouble to go out and find perfect skins, and manufacture using a broken down bag as a sample, copying stitch for stitch and produce an absolute replica - they get the metal fittings copied exactly too.

These are indistinguishable from the originals and cost 10% of the Hermes. That's still €3000, a ludicrous amount to spend on a bag, but I have no doubt there are several members here who's wives will disagree.

So how long before the Chinese build a planet ocean by copying each part, using original spec materials? It won't be a $200 replica, perhaps $2000, but the moment someone decides they want to do it, they can.

Then what?

What this will highlight is the difference between cost of manufacture, and the cost in the genuine which will include marketing, research and development, company running costs, and profit.

Thankfully I think we are a few years away, but it will come.

 

Been there, done that, bought the watch. Still have it but have never worn it. An expensive mistake. What really po'd me was a former friend bragging how you can wear any watch for $200. Just what we need, people believing these cons are a good thing. In my case I can blame it on my own greed and on Craigslist. Never ever buy from craigslist unless you've got a really good plan for proving the watch is real.

 

I find those discussion places useful for this purpose.

 

Big issue. Get right to the point and call me a racist or something but I'm not comfortable flying on a 125 million jet aircraft which was just serviced by a bunch of guys who ride beat-up bicycles to work.

 

Context: you guys never deKete anything.

 

I had the chance to chronometer test a fake rolex and it was indistinguishable from the real thing.

I only use the finest watch testing equipment on any suspect watch.

 

Next time try a .308 instead of a .22 ;-)

 

So you wouldn't fly on a plane serviced in Denmark?

Last year, shortly after getting into watches, I met the boyfriend of my grand cousin - he wore a replica Seamaster PO Chronograph. I couldn't tell

 

The whole idea that there are fake forums to go along with the fake watches is just mind-blowing ... It reminds me of the "Mirror Universe" from Star Trek. Maybe there is some other parallel universe where there is another me, wearing (and complaining about) a fake SMP, and sporting a goatee ...

 

I've had a thought why don't we all join the fakes forum and complain our watches are stil working.
"That bloody 68 constellation is still ticking after all this time. Does anyone know of a reputable dealer selling high quality fakes at discount prices?"
I wonder if we will discover a fake uncle or two over on the dark side?

 

It was done as a joke I'm terribly sorry if anyone didn't get it. No links and I thought a parody of it might be funny.
I never knew those sites existed before today, pardon my ignorance my mind is still boggling that the sites even exist.
So I suppose they are like Voldermort in a web based form then?

 

I wonder if they start with a Casio and do what this guy does.