Advice on exporting watches from the UK

WhereMadnessLies · Feb 28, 2021

Does anyone have any experience in shipping watches from the UK now that Brexit has happened? I've never done this before (as I've never sold any watches outside of the EU till now) and it looks like it is going to be a bit of a minefield. It's something I want to get right because some of the items have a value where it would be quite bothersome to loose out on due to red tape.

Obviously the buyer will be responsible for any customs/import duties but what happens if they want to send the watch back? I don't want to have to pay customs/import duties just to get the watch back.

I've tried to find some information on this and it appears the duties/charges can be claimed back by filling out a “Returned Goods Relief” form, C1314. This form mentions that I'll also need a valid C88 export form but the Gov.uk page where that is hosted hasn't been updated since 2014, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Has anyone else had to navigate this and if so do you have any words of wisdom?

slavedata · Feb 28, 2021

This is the offical guidance
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-exports-dispatches-and-supplying-goods-abroad

Jonathan40 · Feb 28, 2021

You are well within your rights to sell privately with a clear statement that nil returns accepted.
That clears one of your issues.
You must insure the item during shipping for an amount you are happy with, sale price normally.
Do not under declare it on the customs form and there should be no issues.

STANDY · Feb 28, 2021

Jonathan40
You are well within your rights to sell privately with a clear statement that nil returns accepted.
That clears one of your issues.
You must insure the item during shipping for an amount you are happy with, sale price normally.
Do not under declare it on the customs form and there should be no issues.

So would you buy much with a clear statement of nil returns ?

smoothsecondscom · Feb 28, 2021

WhereMadnessLies
Does anyone have any experience in shipping watches from the UK now that Brexit has happened? I've never done this before (as I've never sold any watches outside of the EU till now) and it looks like it is going to be a bit of a minefield. It's something I want to get right because some of the items have a value where it would be quite bothersome to loose out on due to red tape.

Obviously the buyer will be responsible for any customs/import duties but what happens if they want to send the watch back? I don't want to have to pay customs/import duties just to get the watch back.

I've tried to find some information on this and it appears the duties/charges can be claimed back by filling out a “Returned Goods Relief” form, C1314. This form mentions that I'll also need a valid C88 export form but the Gov.uk page where that is hosted hasn't been updated since 2014, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Has anyone else had to navigate this and if so do you have any words of wisdom?

Never expected that brexit would be so annoying as a watch lover 🙁 import duties and shipping hassles are annoying as fυck.

Jonathan40 · Feb 28, 2021

STANDY
So would you buy much with a clear statement of nil returns ?

Don’t we see plenty of listing on this sales forum with “private seller no returns, no buyers remorse, no return unless it’s not genuine”
Some sellers do offer 3 days inspection which is great but plenty don’t. I merely passed an option the OP might not have considered but is not uncommon.

Evitzee · Feb 28, 2021

If the watch is accurately described (cosmetically and mechanically), with good clear pictures, there should be no reason for a buyer to return it unless he has buyer's remorse. And buyer's remorse is not something the seller should have to deal with, imo.

imagwai · Feb 28, 2021

Still feasible some damage happens to the watch in transit or seller inadvertently missed a detail the buyer isn't happy with. Under those circumstances, a good seller would accept a return, but wouldn't want to pay import tax and duty just to receive it back.

I think as long as you have some evidence that the item you received back was the one you sent, you should be able to claim any fees back, but not before you'd had to pay them. I imagine the paperwork is a nightmare. And you're right, the HMRC website is awful and confusing.

WhereMadnessLies · Feb 28, 2021

Thanks for the replies guys.

imagwai
Still feasible some damage happens to the watch in transit or seller inadvertently missed a detail the buyer isn't happy with. Under those circumstances, a good seller would accept a return, but wouldn't want to pay import tax and duty just to receive it back.

I think as long as you have some evidence that the item you received back was the one you sent, you should be able to claim any fees back, but not before you'd had to pay them. I imagine the paperwork is a nightmare. And you're right, the HMRC website is awful and confusing.

This is the situation I want to cover myself for. It's about having the correct evidence to make the claim for the fees back as painless as possible. I know if I do find myself in this situation (I'm very much hoping I won't) it is going to be a bit of pain so being as prepared as I can will hopefully spare me a potential future headache.

vitriol · Feb 28, 2021

WhereMadnessLies
I've tried to find some information on this and it appears the duties/charges can be claimed back by filling out a “Returned Goods Relief” form, C1314. This form mentions that I'll also need a valid C88 export form but the Gov.uk page where that is hosted hasn't been updated since 2014, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

6-7 years ago, EU has harmonized a process of customs documentation(s) and has made it digital. A Common "E-System" was introduced. In the UK it was NES (National Export System) and I can imagine it was not dropped after Brexit and you (UK) still use it.
Point is - all forms are digital now, "E-System" will generate the latest correct version of the form and this is probably the reason why gov.uk hasn't update C88 chapter since 2014.

Are you Business or Private individual?
I do ask because you need EORI number to work with this SAD (aka C88) and C1314 forms. Sure you can register, but typically only businesses who are doing regular exports apply for the EORI registration (and access to NES).
If you are private individual, I guess you will not self organize transport outside UK on your behalf - you will use RM, UPS or any other carrier - anyway, you will use 3rd party company to assist you in the exportation.
A quick check on RM website and looks like you need to fill CN22 or CN23 "stickers"
https://personal.help.royalmail.com.../~/help-with-customs-and-sending-items-abroad
Those CN22&23 are names reserved for postal service, so DHL/UPS may have it named differently but for sure these couries have something like customs declaration.
https://www.gov.uk/bfpo/customs-declarations
I think this is all you need to do as private individual, you need to fill "customs declaration form" given by the carrier and they will submit C88 and any other forms into NES.

STANDY · Feb 28, 2021

Jonathan40
Don’t we see plenty of listing on this sales forum with “private seller no returns, no buyers remorse, no return unless it’s not genuine”
Some sellers do offer 3 days inspection which is great but plenty don’t. I merely passed an option the OP might not have considered but is not uncommon.

Nothing against what you wrote.😉 More a question.
It’s OK to say no returns, but Many wouldn’t buy vintage without a return option. (So your limiting your selling audience)
You can take 20 photos but seeing it in the flesh

WhereMadnessLies · Mar 1, 2021

vitriol
6-7 years ago, EU has harmonized a process of customs documentation(s) and has made it digital. A Common "E-System" was introduced. In the UK it was NES (National Export System) and I can imagine it was not dropped after Brexit and you (UK) still use it.
Point is - all forms are digital now, "E-System" will generate the latest correct version of the form and this is probably the reason why gov.uk hasn't update C88 chapter since 2014.

Are you Business or Private individual?
I do ask because you need EORI number to work with this SAD (aka C88) and C1314 forms. Sure you can register, but typically only businesses who are doing regular exports apply for the EORI registration (and access to NES).
If you are private individual, I guess you will not self organize transport outside UK on your behalf - you will use RM, UPS or any other carrier - anyway, you will use 3rd party company to assist you in the exportation.
A quick check on RM website and looks like you need to fill CN22 or CN23 "stickers"
https://personal.help.royalmail.com.../~/help-with-customs-and-sending-items-abroad
Those CN22&23 are names reserved for postal service, so DHL/UPS may have it named differently but for sure these couries have something like customs declaration.
https://www.gov.uk/bfpo/customs-declarations
I think this is all you need to do as private individual, you need to fill "customs declaration form" given by the carrier and they will submit C88 and any other forms into NES.

Thanks for the information. That gives me something to go on. I'll be selling them as a private individual so your point about the courier service doing the official paperwork makes sense. I'll still ask them about the returns & reclaiming duties process. Hopefully they would have a internal process that would cover that eventuality.

Socks · Mar 1, 2021

I sold & shipped a watch to Singapore last year. Was bit of a stress as it was worth a bit and there is always the worry of it going missing. Used Royal Mail. Had to fill out a C23 form, then there is the dilemma of what you put on the label "Watch", "Horological Instrument", and the value. The label should be visible, however the notes say you can put the form in the parcel and put a note on the box saying 'documents enclosed', which I think is an invite to open at the customs at the other end. Other issue is insurance as the couriers/postal services will not cover a watch. You would have to use Securcus or someone like that. Ultimately, it's all a bit of a leap of faith (trust).

Regarding returns, I'm with the 'no returns unless grossly misrepresented'. I think on the OF sales, there is enough confidence to be had from detailed & accurate listings and from the opportunity for references etc. Would be interested to know if anyone has had problems with purchases on here.

ChrisN · Mar 1, 2021

As an individual, all you should need to do is complete CN22 or CN23. You can always check with UK Customs and they have a forum as well if you can't chat to them. Royal Mail is an excellent service but takes a little longer than a courier, obviously. You can add your own insurance as noted above.

On the rare occasion that a watch is returned, the buyer returning the watch should mark his CN (coming back this way) as being returned. If he includes the original CN that you made then it should pass through customs without charges but, if it does incur charges, then you pay them so you can get your watch back. After that, there is specific form used to recover the charges from UK government (BOR286 for RM and Parcelforce) and you will have the proof that nothing sinister has happened with both the CNs and proof of postage. To me, you should also make an invoice when you sell the watch as that shows that you sold it - a PayPal receipt is probably sufficient. You will always lose some small charges of about £20.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...import-vat-relating-to-imports-by-post-bor286

This has been true for all countries outside of the EU for many years but, now you need to include those within the EU. I've managed to get back customs duties/VAT that were incorrectly applied more than once as they have sometimes charged me to receive customer watches that are coming to me for a service. When I send them back, I claim the amount that customs charged in error. They are reasonable and the process is easy.

Note that the BFPO link in an earlier post is just for British forces overseas so, unlikely to be applicable

Cheers, Chris

vitriol · Mar 1, 2021

WhereMadnessLies
Thanks for the information. That gives me something to go on. I'll be selling them as a private individual so your point about the courier service doing the official paperwork makes sense. I'll still ask them about the returns & reclaiming duties process. Hopefully they would have a internal process that would cover that eventuality.

Yes, for sure there is an internal procedure for returns. CN23 form has "Returned goods" box.
In your case, I think the most crucial is to assure that buyer / potential re-sender will fill his local paperwork correctly, will mark "returned goods" in his local customs declaration.

ChrisN
Note that the BFPO link in an earlier post is just for British forces overseas so, unlikely to be applicable

That link is here to recall a name of the form, there is nothing more to be applicable.

WhereMadnessLies · Mar 1, 2021

Brilliant, thanks for the information everyone. This gives me the information or a path to the information that I'll need depending on how I ship the items. Virtual beers (or your beverage of choice) to all who helped 👍

M'Bob · Mar 1, 2021

Never try to extort watches; in my experience they never pay.

Advice on exporting watches from the UK

WhereMadnessLies

slavedata

Jonathan40

STANDY

smoothsecondscom

Jonathan40

Evitzee

imagwai

WhereMadnessLies

vitriol

STANDY

WhereMadnessLies

Socks

ChrisN

vitriol

WhereMadnessLies

M'Bob

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