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Advice on 3570.50 (1995-96) transitional Speedy

M
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Hi guys, considering getting my first vintage speedy soon and would love to have some advice. The seller mentions that this is a 145.022 / 3570.50 transitional. Seller mentions that this is probably from 1995/96. Watch comes on a 1479 bracelet as well.

Seller claims that hands are original tritium, but I’m curious why the hands have not aged like the hour plots.

will very much appreciate some advice if this is worth getting for US$3.8k
 
CE5AD17F-E2DD-4E4B-B6C0-8402D5E87912.jpeg B8AAE45B-F58C-4813-AEC7-236861890B0E.jpeg 84C9AD43-9BAD-4921-9D92-E630480620F6.jpeg FFDDA369-EBC8-4347-8CA8-D108D1145C36.jpeg
momentomori
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To my novice eyes, those hands do look like Super Luminova hands, and as such, are not original nor correct for that watch. I would not buy it.
 
machamp6650
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I'm not sure I'd call this a transitional 3570.50. My understanding is that transitional typically means the new movement (1861) and possibly bracelet from the 3570.50, but with tritium dial and hands from the 3590.50. The pics suggest this movement is an 861, or more likely an 863 given the increased finishing.

My impression is that this might be more likely to be a 3590.50 / 3592.50 with an updated bezel, possibly also a service caseback? I can't tell for certain whether those hands are replacement superluminova as well, looks like it but I'd note that tritium hands often don't age to the same colour or extent as dial plots.

A lot of this could be consistent with a relatively recent service - or with it being a franken / parts watch. In any case I'd struggle to describe this as an all-original transitional 3570.50, if that's what you're hoping to spend your money on.
 
M
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Hi @machamp6650 , can you elaborate more on the updated bezel you mentioned in your post?


I am starting to think it’s a 3590.50 as well with gold plated 861 movement. I’ll only know for sure when I open it up. Can you share more on the increased finishing 863 movement ?

thx for sharing ! Appreciate it 😀
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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Forget the wording transitional.
The watch looks totally ok for 95-96 bezel is correct too. The hands are for sure tritium and typical greenish hue of mid 90’s. I had exactly same watch. If they sit a longer time in the dark the hands develop the greenis hue on mine after a few days with sunlight the had nearly the same color as the dial lume again. Why they behave differently is easily explained as different manufacturers of dial and hands used different mixes of tritium

and btw 3.8 is definitely a good price

cheers
 
eugeneandresson
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M mk2rick
I’m curious why the hands have not aged like the hour plots.

Different manufacturer, different lume mix, slightly different color when new, most likely has not changed much (if at all) in the last 20 years.

M mk2rick
The seller mentions that this is a 145.022 / 3570.50 transitional.

For a 'transitional' 3570.50 I would expect a different bracelet ... the one at the bottom.

jnn3gpbwdc331.png

But maybe they also had the 1479 bracelet in the first batch of 3570.50's ... the reference number would depend on what the warrenty card says.

I would also expect either a tritium dial with an 1861 movement or a tritium dial with a 18 jewel 861 movement (1 year, 1998 I beleive MWO says) ... or even a superluminova dial with an 18j 861 (can't say I have seen one of these, but they may be out there).

To me that looks like a 3590.50, but it may very well be a 3570.50. I would not sweat it, or buy into the 'transitional' thing. Its a nice quirk when the parts show it, nothing more. 'Great looking watch' is all that matters 👍
 
asrnj77
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Serial number is on the back of the lug. You should see if the case serial matches the movement serial. Also you’ll have a better idea on production year if you get the serial number
 
machamp6650
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M mk2rick
Hi @machamp6650 , can you elaborate more on the updated bezel you mentioned in your post?


I am starting to think it’s a 3590.50 as well with gold plated 861 movement. I’ll only know for sure when I open it up. Can you share more on the increased finishing 863 movement ?

thx for sharing ! Appreciate it 😀

Bezel is consistent with a 3570.50 or a current service bezel. On a 3590.50 I'd expect one with no-serif tachymetre font - although again they were also transitioning between bezels around this time...

Re: the movement, photos are dodgy although it appears to have a higher level of finish, e.g. cotes de Geneve polishing, that you'd expect on an 863 rather than an 861? Also is there a hint of a non-Delrin brake? If it's an 863 I'd expect this to be in a 3592.50 (or potentially 3572.50 for a brief period) with the transparent caseback.
 
High Hope
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Faux patinated lume isn’t something I’d expect to recommend. But, in this case, I’d like to see the lume in the hands tinted to match the pips. Sorry to all, apologies for being “that guy.”
 
M
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asrnj77 asrnj77
Serial number is on the back of the lug. You should see if the case serial matches the movement serial. Also you’ll have a better idea on production year if you get the serial number
I don’t have the means to open the case back myself but it’s something I’ll look to do once I have some spare time !
(I got it btw, looks and feels awesome ! )
 
M
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Vintagewtchzilla Vintagewtchzilla
Forget the wording transitional.
The watch looks totally ok for 95-96 bezel is correct too. The hands are for sure tritium and typical greenish hue of mid 90’s. I had exactly same watch. If they sit a longer time in the dark the hands develop the greenis hue on mine after a few days with sunlight the had nearly the same color as the dial lume again. Why they behave differently is easily explained as different manufacturers of dial and hands used different mixes of tritium

and btw 3.8 is definitely a good price

cheers


Thanks @Vintagewtchzilla
I purchased the watch in the end ! Saw the watch in person and gut feeling told me to go ahead.

Surprisingly, the tritium lume on the hands and hour plots still light up, which wasn’t what I had expected.
 
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