Hey guys,

Recently met up with a guy to check out/potentially buy this watch:

http://imgur.com/a/xmvVP

I wanted to get your opinions, both on the watch, and on price.

The watch has clearly had a life. The bezel insert is pretty faded (nicely, I think) and there's a bit of damage near 5 o'clock, but the dial is really clean. All the marks you see on there are in the hesalite, not the dial. Still has most of its tritium, though a bit is missing on the 5, 6, and 7 o'clock markers. Hands are in good shape and the seller assures me everything is original. Wasn't able to take a peek inside but to my inspection the watch is running well. He tells me it's been serviced within the last year and gave me the serial number of the movement, which is correct for 1963. Caseback looks good as well

The lugs I'm less sure about. It was my first time handling a 105.003 in person so to my eyes they've definitely been polished in the past, but look to be in at least decent shape.

So, my questions to you guys:

1. Am I missing anything?
2. How much do you think I should pay? The seller has a number in mind that seems within the ballpark to me, but I don't want to reveal it and bias anyone.


Pictures are below as well:











Should also say that I have less background knowledge about 105.003 prices, as I'm primarily looking for a 145.012 or 105.012...hence why I'm asking

Thanks!

 

Everything looks correct but for my tastes it looks worn and tired rather than patinated. The case has seen a polish but the vast majority of these have.

There are three types of vintage watch I like;

1. Very good/NOS condition. Unpolished, black dial, most of the lume present.
2. Nicely patina'd. Combination of one of more of evenly faded bezel, brown dial, yellow/orange markers etc.
3. Smashed up, but in a nice honest way (must be cheap).

I don't think this one falls into any of those categories and I'd pass. Then again, this is just my taste and I'm sure others would find this watch attractive.

 

The dial and the bezel would be a deal killer for me. Certain items can be fixed more easily that others, and in my opinion it is all about the dial. You could re-lume dial, but then what would that do to the value of the watch? You could try to source a dial, but if a service dial then value drops. Not sure how much luck you would have finding an original dial.

This is too much of a project watch, and while project watches are fun, this one might be a bit too much.

 

I agree this is a worn and tired example - essentially a project watch - and I've spoken to the seller as well. Seems like a nice guy, and the dial and hands look good in person. Caseback is nice and crisp too.

However, the price I heard was way too high for this condition. It has a couple of issues:
One, the chronograph isn't running or resetting properly. It'll need to be serviced, and possibly repaired.

Two, the case has been polished to a fairly extensive degree; the lug bevels are all but gone.

Three, the crown is a replacement and an original crown will run you US$500 or more to source.

And four, my biggest issue is that strange dot (lume?) at 63 on the bezel. This appears nowhere on original Speedmaster bezels to my knowledge, and makes me wonder what else might have happened to the watch. Considering the values for correct, original bezels these days, I wouldn't purchase this one unless it was fairly cheap.

 

Thanks guys. I think I'll end up passing on it then. It does look good in person, but I think I'll just spend the money on a 145.012 or 105.012 in better condition.

Weirdly enough, the chronograph function was working fine when I handled it. I was prepared to live with the weird dot on the bezel, but if there are potentially costly mechanical issues hiding underneath on top of already replacing the crown/crystal, it's a definite pass. Glad you chimed in.

 

Agree. And by the way, what is the asking price for that watch?

 

He has a couple offers, the highest of which I believe was 6500, but was looking for an all-cash local deal.

 

Seconded!

I had the same thought about the bezel - I could live with it, but I don't want to buy this watch for a price any higher than the remaining work would add to, that would come out above the middle of the price range for these. If I could sort it out (including service + crown) for a total of $6k or so then I'd do it, but for now I'll let the other guy with the $6500 take it and deal with it...

 

Yeah, seems like a wiser move. It did look nice in person, which is why I was considering it. Honestly the lugs are what bother me the most, but for a bit less money I could get a pristine 145.012. Now I just have to find one...

 

6500!!!!!

 

WatchRecon.com - search there. There are a couple I've seen whizzing around the internet (including this forum) for sale recently; one of them is already in my possession

 

Yeah, I've been stalking it pretty aggressively. There was a gorgeous one from s2kev a couple weeks ago that sold right as I was starting to look. I'm still kicking myself for not picking up that one. Please tell me you didn't end up with that one. I would hate to have to hate you after you helped me out

 

Our seller has witnessed the prices achieved by examples in better / top condition, and our buyer probably hasn't yet learned his lesson on the 3 C's of vintage watch collecting:
1) Condition
2) Condition
3) Condition!

 

Nope! That was a beautiful example. Wonderful hands. I dare say I made out better than that though

 

Nice! Yeah, I just need to learn to be patient and wait for the right one to surface. Do you have any pics of your new one? I never get tired of looking at speedies.

 

Haven't tried to get a truly good photo of it yet, but here are the two I've taken so far:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/and-what-did-you-buy-today.8930/page-224#post-358817

https://omegaforums.net/threads/wruw-today.567/page-1663#post-358823

 

Very nice! Love the dial. Bezel looks great as well

 

6500 is strong IMHO considering the chrono creep, special bezel, case over-polishing & service crown. I would want to see a movement picture. For those that have seen it in person, do the hands look original to the watch? The lume on the seconds hand looks newer than the lume on the hr/min hands, but the lighting could be the reason for that.

 

Movement photo from seller the other day;



Not terribly clear. I forgot to bring a case wrench when meeting the seller.
Seller stated the full serial in his ad though which is in the proper range for a 105.003-63

 

Thanks! I tend to go for the bezel condition first and foremost with these; it's just such a visible part of the watch. The dial looks extra good because the seller swapped the crystal out before shipping; the original crystal was included but it's pretty worn out. The biggest factor was the 1039 bracelet for me though; I love these old Speedmasters on bracelets