Hi everyone! First I'd like to say what a great resource this forum is. Thank you to everyone who is willing to help other collectors! So... I've decided that collecting watches is a bit expensive when it comes to servicing and repair. I promised myself that I would work towards simple repairs and service/cleanings myself. I took the plunge, bought the correct tools, and read everything I could find! I just couldn't bring myself to turn that first screw. The puzzle of delicate parts intimidated me! How on earth can you tell a first wheel from a third when they are sitting on your bench?? I forced myself to get a piece that needed simple repair. A 1951 bumper cal 351. I got it cheap and it needed a stem and crown. I watched videos. No problem! I went to Otto Frei and found the correct stem. I found a crown on eBay. Everything was coming together. After supper I sat down with all my shiny new tools and parts. Watch back removed, I quickly identified the stem screw and loosened it off. Pop the stem in and.... hmmm. It won't go in. I spent about a half hour fiddling and coaxing the new stem - but it absolutely refused. This is one of the easiest repairs! Minimally invasive! I wasn't going to be beaten! I got my 10x loupe and a strong light and illuminated the movement while looking down the winding pipe. There, deep inside, was the remains of the old stem. It had snapped just above the retaining detent. Frak. Ok - no problem. A quick assesment showed that I could get there by removing the barrel bridge. But first, the bumper movement had to come off. Everything I read said 'remove bumper movement'. So I unscrewed the two screws and - argh! - the auto wind movement come a apart! It doesn't remove as a complete piece, only the upper winding bridge. Deep breath... take a picture for reassembly... and examine it. I carefully removed all the freed winding parts and re-evaluated. Next the lower winding bridge and that completes the auto winder. Now something called the Second Sweep Pinion Cock had to come off. This thing is tiny! One screw and gently prise off. I'm getting close. I'm also getting really nervous about re-assembly. Next part - the power wheel. I now know that this sits on the pivot for the third wheel. I didn't know that when I accently snapped the pivot. I was being as careful as I possibly could, so if anyone has tips on how to remove this part they'd be very appreciated. I drove on. I could now remove the barrel bridge and expose the winding mechanism. I took a little patience and some jiggery-pokery, but I removed the broken stem. I need to order some replacement wheels and wait. While I wait I learned a great tip! Reassemble as much as possible so you won't forget later. Barrel bridge back in and install. Power wheel - stays in my parts tray. Second Sweep Pinion Cock - another problem!! The screw was stripped! Or the Train Wheel Bridge threaded opening was damaged. Ok - more parts. The wonder mechanism eventually went back together. And it looks like a watch again. I definitely feel more confident now that I've managed to reassemble the unit. Close examination of the works shows lots of previous work and scratches on the movement. It is now a matter of pig headedness to get this thing up and running!!! I'm now waiting for new parts. I think I'll do a complete tear down when they come in and clean and oil it as well. Thanks again for all the help! Any and all advice is appreciated! 'Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself' - Groucho Marx
Self reliance by way of servicing vintage watches is certainly an understandable goal. I strive for a certain amount of competence there myself. Knowing when to stop before you have a bag of watch parts is the better part of valor. I'll congratulate you when you get it back to a ticking condition.
This wheel is called the "driving wheel over third wheel" - the name implies that it is mounted to the third wheel. It can also be called different names - more common is sweep seconds drive wheel, or something similar to that. You will encounter many wheels like this that are pressed onto an extended pivot of a train wheel, and used to drive another function. Removing them requires a proper tool. Although some will use levers to remove these, I prefer using a proper wheel puller - here is a chronograph drive wheel attached to the fourth wheel of this Cal. 321: I use a wheel puller (Presto style) that is made specifically for wheels with an odd number of spokes - there is also one for wheels with an even number of spokes, but most wheels have an odd number that I have encountered. To protect the bridge under the wheel, the surfaces of the puller need to be polished to a mirror surface - they don't come this way from the factory. Then you use it to remove the wheel: To be frank, this is a very poor choice of movement to do what I assume is your first service on. You are very likely to do further damage if you try to service it, and many parts from this movement are no longer available. If you ever hope to make a working watch of this project, please set it aside until you have more experience. I would suggest starting with an ETA 6497 movement for your first service - it is large, robust, and parts are far more available for it than for the Omega Cal. 351. It takes significant force to remove a bridge with the drive wheel still on and snap the pivot - you need to develop a feel for working at this scale, which is why the 6497 is a good choice, and why most watchmaking schools use it. Even after you are completely comfortable servicing the 6497, you need to then service a simpler auto movement, and work your way up to servicing the 351. It's clear you didn't understand the function of the parts of the 351 when you started working on it, and I'll suggest that this approach will not make your efforts successful in the future. The most important tool in watchmaking is the grey matter between your ears...if you have ever heard the phrase "measure twice, cut once" then the same philosophy should be applied to watchmaking. Trying to learn as you are tearing apart and destroying the movement in the process is not the way forward. Learn the names and functions of the parts first, how they interact, etc. before tearing into another movement. And if you enjoy working on watches, then by all means do so. But if you believe that this will save you money in the long run, that is a different story. To be fully equipped to do a proper service requires a significant investment in tools, consumables, and most of all, time. Cheers, Al
Seems like Al types much faster than me and all I did was, more or less, repeat what he said - sorry. Hi Mike (?) You're a brave man to start with the most complex of the Omega 3 hand autos. I don't want to put you off but these are quite tricky. I'm not one to discourage anyone from working on their own watches if they really want to but you'll need to work hard at this for a few years and with a lot of equipment costing many $1000s to be able to service your own movements to a standard that will save you money - in other words, you'll never save any money, sorry. Doing bracelet changes and so on is not too difficult with practice but opening up the movement is another matter. If you do want to go this way, start with a big manual movement like an ETA 6497 clone for about $50 on eBay. The right way to get to your stem out was to de-case the movement, remove hands and dial and it's in front of you. Much easier than trying to get it from the top of the movement. Anyway, that's the way you've gone in so you're committed - at the end, you'll probably feel you should be. Coincidentally, I have a 354 apart at the moment - this is the tool to remove the "power wheel". It's a Presto Number 3. And to refit it, I use a Horia. To be honest, this is the least of your problems now. With a broken third wheel, the whole movement will need to be stripped and there will be a lot of work in that. Oh, by the way, it's unlikely that the screw is stripped in the bridge, more likely that you are trying to put the wrong screw there. Good luck, Chris
Wellcome on board! I service myself my watches as an amateur. And I can tell you that Al and Chris gave you precious advices! And I agree that servicing your own watches will not save you money - but it will give you great pleasure and another perspective on your watches and watchmaking. I started myself the worse way - with non working very small ladies watches with a cilinder escapement. Well, I learned a lot but that was not rewarding... And I did not start with nice watches, which could be a very bad idea if you care about your watches... As you will learn, Omega bumpers are very nice watches, but these movements are not easy to service and parts are hard to find. So even if you want to learn the hard way, I would not recommand starting with that stuff! Best way to start: follow Al's ans Chris' advices! And continue to come here to show your tries and issues. It is a good way to improve - starting by the correct way to name things and issues, which is not so easy when you begin. François
I saw a forum thread about removing the wheel after I did the damage. Thank you very much for the advice! I don't have much into this watch, and its had a rough life. If it never ticks again and becomes a parts watch I have made my money on it just in the amount it has taught me. I am determined to make it go again though!
Parts such as the third wheel with the extended top pivot such as is found on these Omega bumper automatics, are a diminishing resource. For every third wheel replaced after a pivot breaks off due to carelessness, that is one less part available to watchmakers. Sad! Good luck trying to do anything with it now.
Look all you novice watch guys, start out with something simple, not even an automatic. Here are some examples that you can find cheaply to start with. Good luck and keep up the work. Yes there are two automatics and a date which you save for later.
Fortunately you can find many parts for this movement second hand on ebay, and I've see train wheels as recently as a few weeks ago. However, for the even older Omegas they are much more difficult to find. If not you will need a parts movement. Congrats on having the nerve to just dive right in, however I will second (or third) the idea that this is not a movement for a first time. Even something as simple as changing is broken stem may not be so easy. It comes in a standard length and has to be cut to size. The friction spring and auto movement assembly contain screws that are almost microscopic and take a learned amount of pressure and dexterity. If you ping one of these away it's effectively lost forever. It's also easy to break an incabloc spring or transmission wheel screw. Even I've only recently learned of a Presto no. 3 I've used levers, though I've never broken a pinion. The last 354 I've worked on the rotor teeth were not aligned right and the rotor arm flattened all the teeth on (I'm not sure what it's called, a primitive type of reverser, part 1407). The bumper springs need to be placed properly, the correct oils used, etc. A good place to start is an inexpensive vintage Timex, Elgin, or Hamilton as mentioned without a date, auto, or date complication. I don't know the ETA movements, but these here are probably closer to what you are achieving to working on. A proper service will cost like $220-350, more or less where you live. Somebody doing it for $79 including shipping is not taking the time to do it right. Unfortunately the tools to do it correctly yourself cost $$$ way more than the service, not to mention the time to learn.
Quite right. They are difficult to find and there is a finite supply. If you need one, I can help but to save breaking another, sort someone else to fit it. Like I say, difficult calibre so best to go to a pro. Cheers, Chris
You've had an offer from a very generous and understanding brother collector who has a third wheel he'll make available. I have one as well, but I will keep it until I run into another one of these that some noob has wrecked, and that I can buy for cheap!
You are quite adventurous. I was thinking in the same direction, about taking some watches apart. A cheap Seiko 5 was the direction is was heading. I haven't gotten there yet, so kudos to you.
I have been collecting a few old watches on eBay also. I buy mostly non-working mechanical and a few automatic's. Even got a big 1900's pocket watch that is over wound to start with. Been viewing lots of watch repair you tube videos and just waiting for a few more tools and a sonic cleaner. That first plunge will be fun, I just hope I don't have any parts left over after reassembly :~)
verb (used with object), overwound, overwinding. 1. to wind beyond the proper limit; wind too far: He must have overwound his watch.