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  1. afinewatch Feb 26, 2017

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    So I was doing some search on watches with GILT dials and noticed how many sellers are using the term incorrectly.
    To them any dial with gold paint printing is a "Gilt" dial.
    I have owned a few with genuine gilt dials. Here is mine, you will not see another in the wild so readily.
    Omega Constellation168017
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. afinewatch Feb 26, 2017

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    and here a Movado with a GILT dial and below a Rolex Air King 5500
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Edited Feb 26, 2017
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  3. Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Feb 26, 2017

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    I think there was an informative thread about gilt dials last year with some good examples if you want to do a search for it for more info
     
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  4. afinewatch Feb 26, 2017

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    Thanks, I do not need more info. My post was just a statement reflecting how rare these dials are and how so often the term
    is used incorrectly.
     
  5. Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Feb 26, 2017

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    I figured that - but thought you might find the supporting thread interesting to your discussion
     
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  6. dougiedude Carpe horologium! Feb 26, 2017

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    tapaptpat and Peemacgee like this.
  7. M'Bob Feb 26, 2017

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    I would agree. You have some nice watches, but by stating that many misuse the term, without explaining what you believe is correct, sort of leaves everyone hanging, no?
     
  8. Peemacgee Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers Feb 26, 2017

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    I think you may have replied to the wrong post ;)
     
  9. M'Bob Feb 26, 2017

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    Totally correct, apologies.

     
  10. Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. Feb 26, 2017

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    Cool ... just learned something. That's why I appreciate this site so much.
     
  11. afinewatch Feb 26, 2017

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    So this in my own words:
    The true Gilt dial is something that even most watch collectors do not know about. It was a more expensive process of making the dials. The brass blank used for this dial would be highly polished to a mirror finish. It may have been gold plated: yellow or white. All the text and minute markers were laid down in a soluble "paint". Thereafter the black paint was applied all over and when dry, the soluble substance was removed exposing the shiny polished metal. Now to protect it from oxidation a transparent lacquer was applied. Only a small percentage of vintage watches have such dials. The way to recognize these dials the printing must shine like a mirror and under magnification you will notice that the printing is at lower level than the black paint. I have first come across a gilt dial some 20 years ago and have only been able to buy a few others since that time.
     
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  12. watchlovr Feb 27, 2017

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    I for one do not agree with this assessment, it was made up and agreed by various Rolex collectors in the last 10 years. Just because a group decided to call it something, this does not mean it becomes a law, I for one have never agreed on it.
    I understand you chaps like to claim "Gilt" as the lack of paint on a dial with the polished blank showing through but how does the translate in gilt furniture, gilt finishing on jewellery, silverware, house interiors,most of which have been gilting items (by applying gold leaf) long before watches were even thought of.
    Gilt there means applied gold, that is also what I take it to mean in watches, I see no reason to change, find another description for your "thing"
     
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  13. mac_omega Feb 27, 2017

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    In a former thread on this topic I called it "galvanic sandwich" as it describes how it is done:
    several layers (different color) applied using galvanization and not printing paint...
     
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  14. afinewatch Feb 27, 2017

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    Don't get all upset and insert Rolex Forum into this. Rolex Forum had nothing to with this term. As I stated before I was first aware of these dials over 20 years ago. I started buying, selling and collecting watches in 1989. The first one that came to me was a vintage Hartmann chronograph. I called it Gilt myself back then because it was the term that best described the effect it created. The best comparison is to the old window signs that were done with gold foil. This was an art by itself. May be the dial makers were going for the same effect, who knows. So don't get all hung up on the process of applying gold leaf. I was a member of Rolex Forum and even there most people including the Moderators did not know the difference between the Gilt dials and dials printed with gold paint. When I brought the subject of Gilt dials there for discussion the owner of the forum at that time Richard Carver accused me of trying to perpetrate some fraud on the watch collecting community. This is how ignorant he was. Finally a few members who are fellow watch collectors and not just pigeonholed into Rolex collecting set him and few others straight. So Rolex Forum was a Johnny come lately on this one. So even though Gilt dial was not created the same way as gold foil window signs or gilded furniture, this term is the shortest way to describe the look. I will continue using it and you do as you see fit.
     
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  15. watchlovr Feb 27, 2017

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    Well don't tell me what to think mate...and in bold type too, what a cheek!
     
  16. afinewatch Feb 27, 2017

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    I have wasted enough time with this.
     
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  17. dougiedude Carpe horologium! Feb 28, 2017

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    @afinewatch

    Can I 'gilt' you into using a pic of the old Hartmann dial as your avatar? Or, another fine-looking gilt dial, maybe, but your choice!

    I respect you as a great contributor here on the forum, I've enjoyed your posts, but for the benefit of yourself and others, give us an avatar! :D

    Cheers,

    Doug
     
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  18. dbane007 Feb 28, 2017

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    A true gilt dial start first as a polished brass blank. Thereafter, the chapter ring, text, etc are pad-printed onto the naked dial using temporary "ink".

    The entire dial is then immersed into a bath where the black layer is applied using a galvanic process. The black is NOT paint. The temporary ink resists the galvanization process and is "washed" away (chemically and mechanically) to reveal the negative-relief nature of the fonts/index markers etc.

    Nitro-cellulose lacquer is then applied to the entire surface. Often the depth rating or other text is then pad printed on top of the lacquer (e.g. Silver depth print on a Rolex 6538 big crown).

    Yes the term is probably misused by the majority of the masses. Tough to turn the titanic.
     
  19. afinewatch Feb 28, 2017

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    Thanks for the compliment. Due to impolite replies as you see above I have decided to keep my posts infrequent. No avatar needed by me either.
    I post most of my stuff elsewhere, message me if interested to see.
     
    Edited Feb 28, 2017
  20. ac106 Feb 28, 2017

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    Well that's for sure