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joso
·good work tony, always nice when people share their welt of collected knowledge (dibs on your certina ds)😀
A Unique Vintage Longines, and its Connection to One of the “Princes of Precision”
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tmw57
·Tony,
Thanks for this highly informative and beautifully written article.
Thanks for this highly informative and beautifully written article.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberI don't mean to hijack this thread (at least not too far off topic), but I was curious as to how this Chronometer fits into the pantheon of high-end Longines:
Looks like an interesting piece, but the price? 😲
gatorcpa
The 24.41 is another high-end movement, and used in sideral time watches, among others. Here are a pair you can buy:
http://watch-time.de/en/types/milit...ometer-with-8-days-movement-sideral-time-3083
The dealer display model that you showed is exceptional, along with the price, of course.
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dodo44
·Outstanding watch and research Tony! This pocket watch is very much an example of form follows function; nothing extraneous. And it has the story that goes with it.
gatorpa: the ebay 24.41 is superb. It is a display item that was used by jewelers to give the time to passerby and at the same time advertise for Longines. Here is a picture of mine. It is attached to an original contraption to suspend it on the wall.
gatorpa: the ebay 24.41 is superb. It is a display item that was used by jewelers to give the time to passerby and at the same time advertise for Longines. Here is a picture of mine. It is attached to an original contraption to suspend it on the wall.
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jimmyd13
·Thank you for a wonderfully entertaining and informative read. The idea of a seconds hand working the same way as a vernier caliper made me smile.
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JimInOz
··Melbourne AustraliaA sunny winter Sunday, a nice hot coffee, sitting in the library listening to Brahms Symphony No 4, and reading this absorbing post.
I often wanted to scroll down quickly to get to the punch line, but resisted, such was my opposing need to follow the trail.
I was starting to get an inkling as to what was coming, but I once again resisted and kept the tension going until the end.
Thanks for making my Sunday read such a pleasure Tony.
I often wanted to scroll down quickly to get to the punch line, but resisted, such was my opposing need to follow the trail.
I was starting to get an inkling as to what was coming, but I once again resisted and kept the tension going until the end.
Thanks for making my Sunday read such a pleasure Tony.
Edited:
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury member@Jonatan
Thank you!
@aap
Thanks Aaron!
@Mark020
Thank you, Mark, I appreciate it!
@Syrte
Thanks S!
@joso
Thank you, and noted!
@tmw57
Thanks very much, Todd!
@dodo44
Thank you, and your clock is a beauty! I'm envious!
@jimmyd13
Thanks Jimmy, I'm glad that you enjoyed it.
@JimInOz
Much appreciated, Jim!
Thank you!
@aap
Thanks Aaron!
@Mark020
Thank you, Mark, I appreciate it!
@Syrte
Thanks S!
@joso
Thank you, and noted!
@tmw57
Thanks very much, Todd!
@dodo44
Thank you, and your clock is a beauty! I'm envious!
@jimmyd13
Thanks Jimmy, I'm glad that you enjoyed it.
@JimInOz
Much appreciated, Jim!
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Kerouac
·Wonderful writing Tony! Thanks so much for all the effort you put into this and for sharing it here 😀
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Deafboy
··His Holiness Puer SurdusI don't know if Ms. Bochud meant to imply that all of the pocket watches sold with the 37.9 S were designed to be true 24hr watches, or if they simply had indexes extending from 13-24 as well.
"24h en 1 tour" translates to 24 hours in one revolution. To me it clearly means it is a "true 24 hour" watch.
Nice catch and terrific post.
Michel
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberDepends on the era. Here are some early calibers:
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DirtyDozen12
··Thanks, mystery donor!I suppose that centre second cal 37.9 must be rare. Are most of them 12.68z calibre?
When you write, "most of them," to what are you referring? Centre second caliber 12.68Z (not to be confused with caliber 12.68N) are somewhat uncommon in wristwatches, and I cannot recall if I have ever seen one in a pocket watch (not to imply that the watch you posted is incorrect). Do you have photos of the dial of that pocket watch? It is quite an intriguing piece.
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omegastar
·Here is a Longines pocket watch with cal. 12.68N. It is 39,8 mm. in diameter. Reference is 23731 with a serial number 7.579.572.
I have no other information.
If you have additional information, please share.
I have no other information.
If you have additional information, please share.
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerWhat did Longines tell you?
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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerPerhaps send them an email! They will be able to tell you where en when it was delivered
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omegastar
·That’s the plan !
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707mm2
·Hi,
Thanks for updating this thread, I didn't know about it the original story it is so interesting ! I'd like to make just one remark based on my own research about Longines calibers :
From what I've observed, the "S" was just a new designation Longines gave to all its center second calibers after 1950, wether they had a second hack or not. The most common example is the 12.68N, which was renamed 12.68ZS for most models and 27.0S for high grade gold watches. Same fate for the 23ZN which became 23ZS, or the 22N (later 22LS). Note that in the 1940s, the "N" designation was applied to all calibers which had the new patented (CH209678) indirect center second, which simplified earlier designs by having just one single third wheel engaging with both the center second pinion and the second wheel pinion under the same bridge (instead of having another larger wheel on top of the bridge on the third wheel axle on older movements).
Calibers introduced before 1940 did not have special designation for center seconds, since it was just added "on top" of a base caliber. As it is reminded in the original post, "N" or "Nouvelle éxécution" was used only in the case of modification of the actual base caliber. The new center second system introduced in 1940 needed a redesign of their base calibers since it had a smaller center wheel and thus different pivot position of the third wheel, a taller bridge and pinions and so on... It couldn't be just some sort of "add-on" like previous center seconds so they had to make a new execution of all the calibers adopting this system (like the 10.68N or 14.68N to name a few). I'm sure Longines changed their designations around 1950 to have a more clear reference cause it may have led to confusion even for them.
Thanks for updating this thread, I didn't know about it the original story it is so interesting ! I'd like to make just one remark based on my own research about Longines calibers :
I believe that it is also reasonable to infer that the 37.9 S, used in the later references, was a hacking version of the same 37.9 N, and that the “S” may well have been used to designate that “stop-second” function.
From what I've observed, the "S" was just a new designation Longines gave to all its center second calibers after 1950, wether they had a second hack or not. The most common example is the 12.68N, which was renamed 12.68ZS for most models and 27.0S for high grade gold watches. Same fate for the 23ZN which became 23ZS, or the 22N (later 22LS). Note that in the 1940s, the "N" designation was applied to all calibers which had the new patented (CH209678) indirect center second, which simplified earlier designs by having just one single third wheel engaging with both the center second pinion and the second wheel pinion under the same bridge (instead of having another larger wheel on top of the bridge on the third wheel axle on older movements).
Calibers introduced before 1940 did not have special designation for center seconds, since it was just added "on top" of a base caliber. As it is reminded in the original post, "N" or "Nouvelle éxécution" was used only in the case of modification of the actual base caliber. The new center second system introduced in 1940 needed a redesign of their base calibers since it had a smaller center wheel and thus different pivot position of the third wheel, a taller bridge and pinions and so on... It couldn't be just some sort of "add-on" like previous center seconds so they had to make a new execution of all the calibers adopting this system (like the 10.68N or 14.68N to name a few). I'm sure Longines changed their designations around 1950 to have a more clear reference cause it may have led to confusion even for them.
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omegastar
·While browsing on eBay, I found another sweep second pocket movement, a Cal. 18.89.
https://www.befr.ebay.be/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=longines+18.89&_sacat=0&_pgn=2
https://www.befr.ebay.be/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=longines+18.89&_sacat=0&_pgn=2