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  1. The_Walrus

    The_Walrus Mar 14, 2017

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    Good day all.
    I am considering a '67 premoon, well priced (for 2017!!!) with a reasonable DON fitted, 321 crown, pushers and 1039.
    Correct dial according to my MWO, ticks every box however seller has stopped short on answering the question of relume (and providing a pic of the lume charged by light).

    Would this constitute as a red flag by most given the prices these 321's now command?

    Would one generally request a discount if so and is it an acceptable fact or does one walk away entirely?

    Appreciate your input..
    Thanks
     
  2. Foo2rama

    Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Mar 14, 2017

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    Ask him how it behaves after being lit. It should glow for 3-10 seconds then too faint to be useful.

    Also a dial shot would be needed to really comment on it. He might be worried it's faint and thinks it's wrong.
     
  3. tamura

    tamura Mar 14, 2017

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    "For instance, tritium lume (perhaps applied on a watch sometime in the '60s to '70s) should no longer glow either too brightly or for a long time in the dark, given that the half-life for tritium is ~12-13 years."

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/how-to-spot-a-redial
     
  4. Davidt

    Davidt Mar 14, 2017

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    Yes it affects the price. How much depends on the quality of the work.

    If it's an obvious relume, with green gloop applied with a trowel. It significantly reduces value. If it's so good that we have three pages of discussion trying to figure out if it is or isn't a relume, the reduction is much, much less.
     
    bmilnes, gemini4, Dgercp and 2 others like this.
  5. The_Walrus

    The_Walrus Mar 14, 2017

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    Photos dial
     
    Screenshot_20170314-184847.png Screenshot_20170314-184824.png
  6. U5512

    U5512 Mar 14, 2017

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    The markers have been relumed. It's funny that the chronograph hand has a different green color lume than the hour markers and hour/minute hands, and none of them match!!!
     
  7. The_Walrus

    The_Walrus Mar 14, 2017

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    Thanks for your input David. It funny how when it comes to Rolex, no matter how expertly applied or sloppy, a relume is a red flag, a definite no.
    Would the dial pictured be acceptable in your eyes? The seller has identified the word professional as being smudged.
    Sourcing another dial crossed my mind but we would be moving away from it being a genuine watch...
     
  8. Davidt

    Davidt Mar 14, 2017

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    It's hard to say without seeing it in hand, or with several photos from various angles, but I think the hour marker lume is original, along with the hour and minute hand. The chrono hand has either been replaced, or relumed. The issue here isn't the lume for me, it's the scratch across the 'professional'.

    I do however think some Rolex collectors are in denial about their watches being all original, with original lume....
     
    Edited Mar 14, 2017
    LawBrk and oddboy like this.
  9. glownyc

    glownyc Mar 14, 2017

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    This in itself sounds like it could be cause for concern.
     
    mr_yossarian likes this.
  10. Tritium

    Tritium Mar 14, 2017

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    I've been helping a new member who also liked this watch and the quote from the seller was 7.750€ !!
     
  11. noiseboyuk

    noiseboyuk Mar 14, 2017

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    I suspect that for the 'purist' original lume is 'king'.
    However, I'm not sure that's the case when lume is a total disaster because of humidity etc.
    I guess an expert re-lume would be more acceptable if it was in the same material i.e. Tritium.
     
  12. Davidt

    Davidt Mar 14, 2017

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    If the lume's knackered, green, mouldy and ugly, a quality relume will almost always increase value.
     
  13. The_Walrus

    The_Walrus Mar 14, 2017

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    Correct. And the consensus?
    Given your name you must be the authority on all this :p
     
  14. WatchWarlock

    WatchWarlock Mar 14, 2017

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    Oh? My 145.012-67 has some ugly lume going on...but I've always assumed originality will always command the best value. Care to elaborate? I'm genuinely interested if this is the case.
     
  15. Foo2rama

    Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Mar 14, 2017

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    It depends on over all look. I would not say a relume WILL have better value then mouldy lume.
     
  16. Davidt

    Davidt Mar 14, 2017

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    I'm talking about real mouldy, dark green-black stuff. Not just yellow with a hint of green.

    It also depends on who's doing the relume work. Often it looks just as bad, if not worse than mouldy lume. But a good, neat, job with yellow compound replacing some of the black gunk we see? I'm sold.

    Originality is king. Without question. But we sometimes see watches paraded as all original and I think "it might be original, but it looks like shit!" I much, much, much prefer originality, especially on higher end examples, but in some cases, where it's only ever going to be a "running" (to quote sp101) specimen due to condition issues with the watch as a whole, a quality relume would often improve matters IMO.
     
    Mouse_at_Large and gemini4 like this.
  17. The_Walrus

    The_Walrus Mar 14, 2017

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    Assuming worst case this is a relume, is it worth €7750?
     
  18. oddboy

    oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Mar 14, 2017

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    well, that's probably a $4K+ bezel on there. case and movement have value. dial looks nice... depends on who is buying I suppose.
     
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  19. robbygoodkarma

    robbygoodkarma Mar 14, 2017

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    Being in estate watch sales for a living, I always advise my clients not to re lume. It just raises to many questions for future trades/resale. The only time I think reluming a watch is ok is when it's an older guy (original owner of timepiece) that has had the watch 40 years, still wears it everyday and wants nighttime visibility. I will still let him know that his cal 321 speedy is worth a ton as original as possible then they usually change their mind about touching it.
     
    WatchWarlock likes this.
  20. Dgercp

    Dgercp Mar 14, 2017

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    Life is short, avoid relume. Personally, despite that lovely bezel, I would prefer spending my €7700 on one with
    original lume and maybe a somewhat less nice bezel. But, that's just me.
     
    The_Walrus likes this.