A nice Dog Leg Pie Pan ??

RoadRunner73 · Apr 15, 2023

pdxleaf
The correct crowns look amazing but they are horrible to actually use to wind, which you'll need to do if you don't wear it for awhile. Agree with other comments re: price. If you aren't set on having a chronometer then you may find a non-chronometer one cheaper.

Yours is not a bad watch and would be nice on the wrist. But since the audience here are mainly collectors, this example is not in collector's condition, imho.

Unless you like gold, many folks prefer all steel or all gold. Sorry if I am overstepping as you didn't ask this. Just don't settle for something if you are worried about not finding a watch. The way it goes you'll see your perfect watch one week after you buy a good enough watch.

Best of luck.

When I first look at this watch, I also thought the crown was bad looking, but I'm also quite with you that a 10 sided crown is a pain to wind to set the date unless it's got the quick set option ; so my choices are either a no-date with the correct crown, or a date with a crown offering a better grip.
I do since realize that the majority goes for all steel or all gold ; though I quite like the steel/gold mix, AND I am also attracted by all steel ones, the better option should probably be to first go for an all steel, and then hunt for a proper all gold some time later.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 15, 2023

bikerfox
I agree with MTV's response. It took a long time for me to find the right dynamic watch. But, glad I waited and in the meantime educated myself as to the subtleties and nuances of the watch. Price / condition / timeliness of the sale -- it's probably pretty rare to have all three occur at the same time and two of three are probably more likely.

You name it ! I believe I also need to learn to put the various aspects of a watch in the right rank of priorities: at this point in time, and considering all the comments I received here I should probably consider that dial condition comes first, then the lugs and case condition, then the crown, where the other aspects are possibly less of a problem in case it would need some later action.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 15, 2023

SOG53
I think its a nice watch and I dont think it is overpolished. Crown can be easily swapped. I would buy it for 1500 -if you paid 2000 I dont think its way too much. These are all personal decisions mind you. Hope you enjoy it

Well a perfect illustration that we are not all looking at things exactly the same way ! I also consider that the lugs and case are not overpolished, and I am not as worried about the crown as others are here, but looking backwards, it's probably true that the dial could be in a better condition, so this last aspect might be a final no-go for me...

Peemacgee · Apr 15, 2023

RoadRunner73
When I first look at this watch, I also thought the crown was bad looking, but I'm also quite with you that a 10 sided crown is a pain to wind to set the date unless it's got the quick set option ; so my choices are either a no-date with the correct crown, or a date with a crown offering a better grip.

I know we keep having this conversation but unless you have fingers like the Incredible Hulk setting the time and changing the date with a decagonal crown really isn’t that much of a problem.

It’s winding a Constellation with a decagonal crown that is a bit more difficult because it is tight up against the case and there is little to grip.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 15, 2023

I am offered this '69 all steel at the same time : it's got a 564 inside (29 xxx) and IMO the dial is in very good shape, and so the lugs apparently; I find it quite nice, but I must say the fact that it has painted hour markers instead of onyx inserts makes it far less attractive to me ;
see what you guys think of it, and let me have your opinion on painted markers vs Onyx inserts, thanks !

also about less than €2000, though price not finalized yet.

BAJJ · Apr 15, 2023

RoadRunner73
Yes I realized that generally all stainless steel pie pan is largely favored ; though I very much like the combination stainless / gold of the gold capped, I am also attracted by them.

Taste is always so subjective. I also really like the gold cap versions, there is something about the two tone appearance that I really like, equally as much as the stainless steel version. The gold cap is a lovely watch to wear for an evening out.
I think the one you have posted is in reasonable overall condition, the case may have had a polish (or its just worn with age), its a bit 'soft' but not too much to make it unattractive and the dial is not perfect, its an honest watch. However, the price is much too high, like double what it should be. As others have said, be patient. If you are willing to spend $2K then you should be able to get one in much better condition.
For reference, pictures of my gold cap (not piepan but the case is the same), I paid less than $1000 for this one, the pie pan will command a premium but not that much. Happy hunting.

Peemacgee · Apr 15, 2023

RoadRunner73
I am offered this '69 all steel at the same time : it's got a 564 inside (29 xxx) and IMO the dial is in very good shape, and so the lugs apparently; I find it quite nice, but I must say the fact that it has painted hour markers instead of onyx inserts makes it far less attractive to me ;
see what you guys think of it, and let me have your opinion on painted markers vs Onyx inserts, thanks !

also about less than €2000, though price not finalized yet.

This is a much better condition watch.
The dial is good (although @hoipolloi will have something to say about the missing index at 3)
The case is pretty good too.

The question of painted indices is subjective but one thing is certain - in that it should affect the value of the watch.
A painted index watch should not command the same price as a comparable onyx insert watch.

hoipolloi · Apr 15, 2023

Peemacgee
the missing index at 3)

Yes, I would deduct some money because of that.
Early and late pie pan connies don't have it.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 15, 2023

hoipolloi
Yes, I would deduct some money because of that.
Early and late pie pan connies don't have it.

OK thanks for these comments ! but this is not yet clear to me what this exactly means about the missing index at 3 :
a) should be there but is missing ?
b) that '69 hasn't got any as only the earlier and later versions have one, and therefore value of a '69 should be lower than a say a '62 ?
Please tick the right answer ! 😉

hoipolloi · Apr 15, 2023

RoadRunner73
OK thanks for these comments ! but this is not yet clear to me what this exactly means about the missing index at 3 :
a) should be there but is missing ?
b) that '69 hasn't got any as only the earlier and later versions have one, and therefore value of a '69 should be lower than a say a '62 ?
Please tick the right answer ! 😉

b is correct.

On an early pie pan connie with date, you will see no small index next to the date window.(20 mil or earlier)
Same thing to late ones (25 mil and later).
The ones with that small index next to date window look nicer and more collectible.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 15, 2023

Let's start again ! I read you too quickly and the whole talk went in a mess...
you've stated : "Early and late pie pan connies don't have it."
The one I'm scruiting is a '69 and hasn't got an index at 3 : so there is none because a '69 is a late Pie Pan according to you ??

Then when does your Cyclop which has got one dates ?

TexOmega · Apr 15, 2023

That second one from 1969 you posted appears to have heavy rotor wear and that rotor one sees is a service replacement rotor (see "0" on rotor), so some WM did not repair the underlying fault.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 16, 2023

TexOmega
That second one from 1969 you posted appears to have heavy rotor wear and that rotor one sees is a service replacement rotor (see "0" on rotor), so some WM did not repair the underlying fault.

Thanks for this warning, I'll discuss it with my watchmaker ;

the "O" seen on the rotor has been discussed recently here via a separate thread I had opened, and opinions are apparently differing as to the meaning : some as you stated that it means "service part", but several like me are puzzled by the fact that it appears on (all ?) 564 movements seen so far : somewhat strange because if you are right, it would mean that (all?) 564 would have had their rotor changed, whereas "O" rotors are only seen on a few other movement references.

TexOmega · Apr 16, 2023

RoadRunner73
Thanks for this warning, I'll discuss it with my watchmaker ;

the "O" seen on the rotor has been discussed recently here via a separate thread I had opened, and opinions are apparently differing as to the meaning : some as you stated that it means "service part", but several like me are puzzled by the fact that it appears on (all ?) 564 movements seen so far : somewhat strange because if you are right, it would mean that (all?) 564 would have had their rotor changed, whereas "O" rotors are only seen on a few other movement references.

Either way, there seems to be rotor wear..... from these pix.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 16, 2023

TexOmega
Either way, there seems to be rotor wear..... from these pix.

you mean wear on the case caused by the rotor ? Hard for me to see as I'm far from being an expert...

TexOmega · Apr 16, 2023

RoadRunner73
you mean wear on the case caused by the rotor ? Hard for me to see as I'm far from being an expert...

Wear on the rotor rubbing against the inside of the caseback. There is no picture of the caseback, so I hedged and said "appears". But if there is rubbing on the inside of the case back, then the WM needs to address the underlying faulty parts on the movement at service.

And, if when inspected in hand, you see no rubbing on either the rotor or inside the caseback, then the photo has some shadow.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 18, 2023

Thx @TexOmega !
Got it now ! That watch no being officially on sale yet, I've asked for the missing pics of the case back for final evaluation.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 19, 2023

@TexOmega : Got this fresh picture from the seller a minute ago : that seems quite OK, what do you think ?

But then comes a potential problem : as I mentioned earlier, the watch has not been serviced yet, and the seller just alerted me in a most honest move on the presence of a crack on the bezel that was hardly to be seen on the previous pics he had sent me :

He says he could have it laser welded : I already saw that this is a fairly common thing to do, but what do you guys think of that ? Not kowing yet whether he would charge me anything for that ; I also know my watchmaker could probably do it as well, so I'll show him this picture for evaluation.
It's probably also down to one's expertise to then properly polish the welded area so that the defect and weld will no longer be visible. I could imagine this is not everybody's expertise...

The next question then is trying to understand what has happened to the watch ? a chock most probably ? and isn't the bezel a bit bent as we move towards 12 ? I think I should investigate that as well.

RoadRunner73 · Apr 22, 2023

It will finally be a no go on this watch.
Thanks to all your valuable opinions to help me sort this !

gmmy775 · Apr 23, 2023

Hi again RoadRunner. Followed this thread with some interest since it was initiated by you, and because I have spent months looking for a presentable pie pan. I certainly am not the expert on this topic, and I believe some of the responders actually are, but I learn quickly. I have gleaned a half dozen finer details in just the last ten minutes, and those will help me in my quest.

Having said that I do have a few observations of my own. First off, do not be in any hurry to scratch this particular itch, keep picking up pointers and critically use them to make your own assessments of the pie pans that are currently available out in the wild. 2nd, keep stashing cash while you are learning. That way when the one that really talks to you appears then you can fearlessly pull the trigger. Third, there does not appear to be an abundance of exquisite examples actually out there....such as the supernatural ones that I lust after in the OF posts. They are mostly snapped up already. 4th, I have a slightly different take on the dial conversation. I do agree that the three most important things in a vintage watch are: dial, dial, and dial. I don't necessarily think that all of these drop dead gorgeous OF examples came with the dials that we see in the pix. If 6 benjies is the going price for a pristine authentic dial, then I think that this is a legitimate avenue to secure the pie pan of your dreams. I could instantly point you to a half dozen stainless dog legs that seem to have all their edges intact, and appear to have unmolested movements encased within. They also have varying degrees of less than perfect dials. And they all cost somewhat under or just at 1500 US. To my way of thinking, the one important feature of a collectible watch that you can swap out, without a trip to the penalty box, is a better dial. My watchmaker would swap them out while doing the routine service for no extra charge. Lastly, you seem to appreciate the gold clad cases, and I do as well---particularly if it has a sharp gold medallion. Couple of things. Not many collectors that have an ooh-ahh connie is going to wear it daily, if the case wasn't polished and had nice edges when you acquired it then it probably will years down the road. And, if everyone wants stainless then it puts you in a better position to get a bargain on a clad version.

Probably should have asked you into a PM to state these opinions, but why be here if you can't speak your mind and then stand there to take a little heat. That said, if you want to pursue this, I would say just message me

A nice Dog Leg Pie Pan ??

RoadRunner73

RoadRunner73

RoadRunner73

Peemacgee

RoadRunner73

BAJJ

Peemacgee

hoipolloi

RoadRunner73

hoipolloi

RoadRunner73

TexOmega

RoadRunner73

TexOmega

RoadRunner73

TexOmega

RoadRunner73

RoadRunner73

RoadRunner73

gmmy775

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