So I'm very new to this forum and fairly new to watches but I wanted to ask your opinions on something. I have worked in the motorcycle industry, more specifically Harley Davidson for the last 10 years. With Harleys the knucklehead motorcycles (1936-1947) are now very difficult to find and extremely expensive (some $100k+), the panhead is getting more and more difficult now and prices are climbing, and the shovelhead is still affordable but will follow the trend of the knuckle and pan that came before it.

In regards to Speedmasters, and my lack of knowledge, I compare the 321 to the knucklehead engines, the early 861 to the panhead and then the Speedmaster Mark II would be the shovelhead. I understand that the Speedmaster Moonwatches and the Mark II have significant differences, which is why I am comparing Knuckle/Pan heads to a Shovel since the frame is significantly different like the cases for example in the Speedmaster and Mark II. Let me know if I am losing you guys on the analogies. Now to my watch question.

So, Since the Mark II are very affordable now and the others (Speedmasters w/321 and early 861) are becoming more and more unattainable for the average Joe, do you guys think that they will increase in price just like the shovelhead motors will for Harley Davidson enthusiasts? I know no one can predict the future, but it would make sense for an upward trend, would it not?

And if anyone has questions on the Harley side of this thread, that I can help with. Thanks for your insights.

- Pete

 

My subjective opinion is that the design and heft of the Mark II case will forever keep it from becoming as desirable (or pricey) as the Pro.

 

That's kind of the same thing with the Shovelhead bikes. Those years were a dark time for HD and the bikes are bulky, heavy, awkward etc. But just due to them becoming older and harder to find is naturally increasing demand and prices just not as quickly as the pan or knuckle.

 

My guess would be no. I think there is more options in the watch world when it comes to models and brands. While those who priced out of Speedmasters will move on to something else I don't think a Mark II is default choice. Then there are some who say the vintage watch market is in a bubble. If that's true who knows where prices could end up.

 

There is a school of thought that whilst the case design for the MKII may prohibit its desirability it will inevitably continue to climb as prices for Speedsters climb. The price of straight lug and traditional case Speedmaster have gone interplanetary in the last 18months and although the bubble will no doubt soon burst, prices will never get back to where they were! This time two years ago a good Ed White was £3Kish, a good 2998 £4-5K and a good 145.022-69 was £1500, we are unlikely to ever see that again.

The other issue is there are hoards (and I do mean hoards) of people now hoovering these early Speedies (pre 1980) up as investment pieces, in fact there are numerous OF members who have Speedmaster collections which no doubt run in to the hundreds of watches not the dozens. This means that the ability for normal people to get their hands on a pre 1980 tradition Speedmaster are significantly reduced and even if they can find one some one with deeper pockets inevitably leaps in an grabs it.

So, if traditional Speedies are then beyond the reach of most enthusiasts turn their gaze to the next best thing. There are a wider variety of Speedmasters pre 1980 from Quartz to Tuning fork but really the only comparator for the traditional Speedy is the 861 as its the only once (with the exception of the german market only Teutonic) which shares the same movement.

Prices of all Speedies continue to rise, Speedsonics have gone from £500 watches 4-5 years back to £1000 - £1500 now, LCD Quartz Speedies have gone from £200 watches 4-5 years back to £1000 watches now and MKII's are a great investment IMHO, especially if you can find:

1: A very very good original example with box and papers
2: A very nice and unmolested Racing dial
3: A very good chocolate dial (although I have seen only a tiny handful of chocolate dial MKII's in my time

Anyway, just my two pence worth

Cheers Tom

 

I think they will rise for the reasons cited.....I remember when panheads were cheap and have heard that shovels are now becoming expensive. Same thing happened to older BMW and Moto Guzzi's......you could get an R90S for 5k a few years ago now it is over 10k for the same bike.

 

I think it's interesting that we constantly hear about the bulky case design of the MkII not being to everyone's taste...sure, it's a little different, it's very 1970s etc. But if it were really so bad why on earth would Omega bring it back for a re-edition?

I may be biased because I own a MkII, but I think one of the keys to continued desirability is case size, and both the traditional Speedy and the MkII have got that in spades.

 

I see a rise on the horizon but not for any intrinsic never before realised beauty of design but more the fact it will be carried along bringing up the rear of the current Omega Speedy price increase; might also be the first to fall in a reversal.

 

Because they ran out of other ideas likely. They have brought back so many models lately...Tresor, GlobeMaster, Mk. II, PloProf a few years ago, Bullhead, and of course every variation of the Speedmaster imaginable...