Here we go again. Franken alert.
This 2913-3 was relisted last night.
New listning herePurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network ...
Old listning herePurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network (ended at £6.6k) ...
We previously discussed it here ...



The seller is/was a know face on OF, and always have some interesting watches for sale. Some are good, some not so much. Like this one.

What's wrong? Well, between the two listnings he changed the movement from the incorrect, far out of range serial 14893457 to a correct in range serial 16332280, which now is confirmed by an Omega extract. Nothing else changed, it still has an unattractive face etc.

Why do I care, why should you care? Well, because he doesn't mention anything in his endless marketing text and still describes it as a truely "honest" example and ALL ORIGINAL Yeah right. Like the part were he explains the condition of the dial is because of the South African sun. This dial was with 99,99% certainy never in SA, ever.

Movement laundering and bubby trapping aimed at uninformed trigger-happy buyers. Hate that, so for the record it's hereby recorded in the OF archieves

 

excellent watchful eye kox.

dedicated thread should be created for early warning signs on spotted scammer.

 

I like the part in the listing that states "An Honest Watch"

 

Great spot. Haven’t bought anything from this seller but was watching another listing from him. Think I’ll delete that and stay clear.

 

I wonder if this ''correct" movement started life in this 2913 all along and he was planning to strip it out and sell that together with the Extract as expensive parts to double up his profit, or if he invested in a 2913 movement after running into problems trying to sell the 14mil 2913?

I can hardly believe such a seller would go to the trouble of sourcing such an expensive "correct" movement to make the watch 'good'. That doesn't ring true for me, I think it is possible the 2913 started life with this movement, and his plan to 'double up' back fired.....but I guess these's only one person who knows the truth and I'm pretty sure he won't be sharing it!

 

Ulackfocus is back and so is Fullywound.

 

Background to Omega Seamaster 2913-3 1959 listed on eBay by Fullywound on behalf of the Owner

Mr Kox,

I read your two postings on this forum about an Omega Seamaster 2913-3 and your disparaging comments about Fullywound, who was selling this watch for me. I'm really upset about the damage that was caused to his good name and reputation, because of a stupid mistake that my 78 year old watchmaker inadvertently made when he recently serviced the watch for me in South Africa, before I brought it up to the UK for sale.

I understand that you are attempting to guide and protect the unsuspecting public (which is a noble aspiration) from rogue watch dealers, selling 'Frankenwatches' at high prices. However in this case, all is not as it seems, which is exacerbated by the fact that Fullywound is unable to defend himself in this matter, as he has been barred from using this forum.

Let me explain what the true story is, the facts of which can be validated by a responsible person in this forum if they wish to do so. Unfortunately any remedial action at this stage will do little to restore the reputational damage that was done to Fullywound, as the as many of the disparaging comments will be floating around the Internet, unless they are retracted or updated by those who made the original comments.

I am a vintage watch collector of some repute, based in South Africa. Some of my friends in the vintage watch collecting community know me as Mike Nugale (an amusing pseudonym) and they know me by my real name. I've been collecting vintage watches for over 25 years and I know my subject matter well.

I bought this watch late last year in a 'job lot' from the son of a deceased watchmaker in Pretoria, who had accumulated many watches over the years, that had come in for repair and were never collected. When I acquired it I sent it to my usual watchmaker, a 78 year old Austrian, Ernst J (name withheld to protect him) based in Northcliff in Johannesburg. He has serviced many watches in my collection over the years, including a 1957 Railmaster that I found and that he had some original parts for.

This watch has a lot of character and despite the patina on the dial, it's a beautiful and rare timepiece. I specifically told him not to polish the case or replace the hands or touch the dial during the service. Ernst prides himself on being the foremost watchmaker in Johannesburg, with an enviable stock of original parts for many vintage watches, that would be impossible to find elsewhere. (Any serious watch collector will have no problem locating him, with little effort.)

Unfortunately being a man who grew up in a different era, Ernst doesn't understand the Internet at all and how the innocent replacement of a part, with another identical part could have catastrophic implications to the value of a watch, or the damage that could be done to a person's reputation in being accused of selling Frankenwatches, as a result of his actions.

While it's perfectly acceptable for a watchmaker to service a vintage watch with replacement parts, as long as they are for the same model and are of unquestionable provenance, the replacement of a bridge with a serial number, with the same bridge with a different number, can have catastrophic consequences, which is what happened in this case.

When I collected the watch from Ernst, I had no idea that he had actually replaced the bridge on this watch with a 'shiny' one from another Cal. 501 movement. As he had replaced a number of parts with original replacements, it didn't register with me that he would replace the bridge, as he has never done this before on any of my watches. However, knowing the value of these watches, I asked him to return the replacement parts to me, as the new owner would probably want to keep them for safekeeping.

I sent this watch over to Fullywound in the UK with a batch of 30 other watches, (including 21 vintage Rolex watches that he recently listed and sold for me on eBay.) I had no idea of the time bomb that was going to explode once the watch was listed and sold. I told Fullywound that I had paid for a full service of the Omega in South Africa except for the glass, which he said that he would replace when he got it. He had no reason to suspect that there was anything untoward, as I had told him that it was properly serviced by a reputable watchmaker in South Africa.

Naturally I anticipated that the watch would sell well on eBay, as I knew that it would be sought after by serious collectors. (I have had many offers on some of my rarer watches, including my 1957 Railmaster.) I was shocked when Fullywound informed me shortly after the sale closed, that the buyer had backed out of the deal because the serial number on the bridge was a 14,000,000 series instead of the correct 16,000,000 series. Furthermore, he expressed his extreme disappointment at seeing some negative posts on this forum, which were extremely damaging to his reputation.

I asked Fullywound to open the bag of replacement parts that Ernst had given me after the service, and I realised immediately what had happened. Ernst had swapped out the bridge with a 'shinier' one that in his opinion, was more aesthetically pleasing! What a disaster.

When I returned to South Africa in February, I confronted Ernst about what had happened. He apologised profusely about the damage that he had inadvertently caused and said that he had no idea that changing the bridge, would have such devastating consequences for me and Fullywound's reputation, which for the record, he relies on to make a living. I feel really bad about the flak that Fullywound has taken as a result of this. As for Ernst, he was inconsolable when he realised the damage that he had caused and he is seriously contemplating retiring, after what happened. Great watchmakers are a dying breed.

I've come across many 'knowledgeable watch aficionados' like you Mr Kox, who profess to know more than the sheep who hang on your every word. Sadly 'bullshit baffles brains' as they say, especially when it comes to vintage watches. I had a wry smile when I read your assertion that "This dial was with 99,99% certainy never in SA, ever." (sic). How do you know that with such certainty Mr Kok? I'm sure that the Extract from the Archives from Omega will put that false assertion to bed, don't you think? As a person who has over 490 posts on this forum, you should be more responsible in what you write, especially when some folks appear to take you seriously.

While I'm not expecting any apology from you to Fullywound for the damage that you and your cohorts have potentially done to his reputation by your vitriolic comments (as you will argue that you are just being a good watch-collecting citizen), I hope you will reflect a little before you write tripe about someone else, without having access to all the facts. As I said previously, Fullywound cannot defend himself against your damaging posts, so I have decided to set the record straight once I saw your latest critique.

Who knows what damage you might have caused by your negative disparaging comments, which I'm sure we will see once the sale concludes on eBay in around 8 days, time when the watch is finally sold. Anyone who wishes to contact me about the provenance of this watch and to verify my story, can do so with relative ease. My e-mail address can be retrieved from the webmaster of this forum, if anyone wants to contact me directly.

Mike Nugale (Irish)

 

It might've been prudent for seller to have stated the re-listing reasons to avoid this scenario imo.

 

then maybe you should be a bit more careful before selling a vintage watch....like maybe examine it before listing.
Seems like you should be chastising someone else...not coming here with an attitude.

 

Kostas? Is that you? Again??

 

"watchmaker, a 78 year old Austrian, Ernst J (name withheld to protect him) " -- like seriously ?

 

In page 1, followed.

 

Kox has done a huge huge service calling out concerns about this species of Omega where there
exists no definitive source. I believe he is more knowledgable on these than anyone. He did right calling attention
to your watch.

The fact that you have some far-fetched story about a switched bridge (even if true) is no reason to attack somebody who smelled a dead fish. It may make you feel better to attack kox, but it seems the source of this fiasco was 1. you for not checking your watch. 2. Your watchmaker for not realizing that a correct serial number is an important issue, and for not informing you about the switch, and 3. fullywound for not explaining all this in the new ad.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Your 2 cents is probably not worth even that. Kox wouldn't have to be very knowledgeable about anything, if some of the other comments are anything to go by. My 78 year old watchmaker made a huge inadvertent mistake and Fullywound is paying the price for that. Is this a credible forum or a playground for cyber bullies? I gave you the evidence and it's your choice whether you want to believe it or not.

 

@SchoolSavers your attitude is the problem...I dont think anyone here doubts this could be an accident. But your attitude is so off base I really dont care to read your story. Id suggest you apologize for your comments first, then...just maybe we might listen to a humble explanation sans all the bullshit.