OFers, I sadly have a $2500 loss to report as the buyer of an Omega Speedy 3570.50 posted by a now banned ID on the Rolex Forums (TRF). The original selling thread is now removed. I learned that the ID was hacked. Apologize here to the real TRFer of this ID, the facts below have nothing to do with this person obviously.

I sent the "seller" $2500 via bank transfer for the watch on Sunday (5/19). He has been communicating to me up till Friday (5/24) and acknowledged receiving the fund. He promised to ship the package on Friday (5/24) then claimed missing the post office hours. I did not notice the ID was banned until Saturday (5/25). No response so far on Saturday and Sunday.

I contacted the Moderators of TRF, who are really helpful, and was informed that the ID was banned because it was hacked. I think the real user realized sales posts and PMs were send without his knowledge, and contacted the Moderators. The Moderators already checked the phone number provided in the PMs by the hacker and it was related to some health insurance scam in the past.

I checked the ID's history before deciding to pay with wire. Seems the account has a long term history and feedbacks over a long period of time both as buyers and sellers. I did not think about the hacked account scenario... pretty difficult to identify even with due diligence.

For now let me share with the forum all info I have about this hacker for warning purpose:
1. The phone number is 385-263-3203, area code is Salt Lake City;
2. Email: [email protected]
3. Bank account info:
- Bank name: Wells Fargo
- Account Owner Name: Bonnie L Locklear (Update: this is most likely a hacked account too so Bonnie may not be the scammer)
- Account Number: 9725241377
- Bank Address: 1120 Military Cutoff Rd., Wilmington, NC 28405
4. Moderator team provided the IP of the account: 64.83.168.1, which is located in Wisconsin

I called San Jose PD in CA (where I'm located) already and they can't do much as they know everything about these people are fake and often located outside of the US.

I used bank wire out of my checking account, not credit card, and the hacker deliberately continued to communicate until the funds were fully settled. So I don't think the bank can do anything now.

I'd say with their ability to hack accounts, the phone number linked to a different type of scam (insurance), and the way they operate... this is most likely a criminal group, and these people are pros, most likely out of the U.S., and I'm basically hopeless.

I have to say that there are still suspicious details that I should have been more alerted about:
1. I click the original sales post once after making the deal and noticed it was removed. But I did not think too much, maybe it's sold so the seller deleted it. I did not go further to check other posts of the ID, otherwise I should have seen the ID being banned;
2. I asked for additional pictures via text but did not ask for a time stamped picture;
3. The ID info clearly disclosed the real name as ****, but the bank account holder's name is Bonnie. Again I did not think too much and thought maybe it's his wife...
4. There were typos in the bank address when they provided me the info. They provided the street number as 1121, I did a google search and noted the address is a UPS store. Asked and they responded it's a typo, should be 1120. Also the city Wilmington was mis-spelled as "Welmington".

Looking back, all these red flags did not bring up my alert, seems I can say I deserved it...

Man, this Memorial Day will be very memorable to me.

Many lessons to be learnt from this... sharing this experience and hope others can be cautioned.

Robin

 

Very sorry to hear about this

 

Oh man. That sucked. Thanks for posting as a warning, and hopefully others can learn from.

 

Sorry to hear this. A relative of mine experienced something similar once where a grifting (probably fake personality) woman was meeting lonely men on dating apps, romancing them to get to their bank account info, and then setting up fake sales where she would wire the incoming money out of the man’s account and offshore before he had any idea what was going on. So the money vanished through a real account somewhere in the Midwest. Very sophisticated scam.

 

I also lost some money a while ago, after thinking of all the red flags, as you did, i came to the same conclusion

But it was the heat of the hunt, lessons learned and it´s just money !

 

Really sorry to hear that happened to you. Sellers at TRF, OF, and other watch forums continue to insist on wire payments. As soon as I see that, I just skip to the next WTS post. I've noticed something similar on eBay: people selling $20,000 watches saying "PayPal accepted only up to $2,000." Okay, give me a minute to stuff 180 $100 bills into a manila envelope and get that in the mail.

 

Ditto. I don't think I've ever made a transaction for anything via wire transfer.

 

Thanks buddy. I'd take this opportunity to discuss about paying via PP F&F and wire tho. I thought PP G&S are protecting the buyer, while PP F&F and wire are protecting the seller. Does it occur (maybe less often) that a fraudulent buyer paying PP G&S, receive a good watch and claim to PP that watch is fake, then PP most likely snatching the funds from seller leaving them at loss of the watch? I don't know... but when I sell, this is something I'm afraid of. I think it's reasonable to allow the payment term to be negotiated based on circumstances. The more reputable/established party should be protected more, be it buyer or seller.

In hindsight, this is exactly what got me into this mess... I was 0 post at TRF, while this ID is established, so that's part of my justification to pay wire...

What does the forum think?

 

I think what happens more often than "fake" is "doesn't work," "broken," "significantly not as described," etc. PayPal does tend to side with the buyer in these cases. But the watch won't be "lost;" the seller will get it back.

 

That sounds like some picky/difficult buyers but still generally honest to send the watch back... What if they are simply scammers or pros like what I ran into?

 

If someone hacks an eBay account to sell stuff, buyers will be made whole. If somebody hacks a forum account--no protection. Hopefully your post will get people to do a lot more research before wiring money to forum sellers.

 

Sorry to hear that unfortunate event. Thats the only reason why I don’t buy online specially Im paying hard earned cash for me you want my money I want the item right away but thats me. Hope the bastardo gets punished.

 

very sorry to read stories like this.

 

Lots of overlooked flashing red lights on the dash from your story. Slow down next time. Never ever use F&F or wire with a stranger. Look at it this way, 2500 bucks.. not a terrible noob tax. I’ve heard of worse. My personal tab is a tad higher. Expensive lesson. Could have been worse and thanks very much for sharing.

 

I’m really sorry to hear this @robinhook. Thank you for sharing this situation with us. Hopefully it saves someone down the line by doing their due diligence after remembering your thread. At least $2500 isn’t “a lot” in the world of luxury watches, but I also do not assume to know your financial situation so I hope it doesn’t dent your watch fund too much.

So far the most I have spent on the web was for my Speedy Tuesday. Was from a brick and mortar store and I had email and phone conversations with 1 employee. They sent me an invoice via PayPal and I paid it within 5 minutes of getting it. They confirmed payment and I received my watch two days later.

I don’t think I will ever wire anyone funds with how the world is nowadays. Too much risk for me and no way to guarantee anything for myself. That is purely my opinion and honestly that is all that matters to me and my money. I would happily get on a plane and add a stamp to my passport to meet face to face for the right watch in the future. I’d rather make a good friend and get a watch than cross my fingers and hope to god I get a watch.

 

Lol... that cracked me up, thanks mate!

One of the TRF moderator told me that a recent hacked account fraud cost a buyer $40K... I guess he meant to make me feel better. So I told myself, look, had I been that unfortunate buyer, I'd dream to let the hackers keep $2.5k and return $37.5K back to me. So consider this dream come true! And I indeed felt better...

It's so true, SLOW DOWN is the key. Without lessons like this, all I think about when I see a good deal is "act quickly otherwise it'll be gone". Well, now I should discipline myself to strictly perform all needed due diligence, ask all questions. If the deal is gone, let it be, since I may have just avoided losing the entire amount.

 

Geez... Really sorry to hear that. Thanks for sharing and, even though it stings right now, it really could've been worse.

 

Accounts are pretty easy to attempt hacking these days. For example there are tools to auto-enter the top 200 passwords - just choose an established username (forum, Instagram, etc), and the program plugs away. Sorry to hear.

 

What does Wells Fargo Bank have to say about it / or their regulators - worth notifying them just on principle?

https://www.ft.com/content/6cf9e8c2-446e-11e9-b168-96a37d002cd3

 

Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me. It's a club best never joined, the entry fee alone can be painfully expensive. I know. Welcome. Sorry to read about this.