Hi all,

I found this watch for sale. The price is very tempting.
The seller says it is a 1969 Speedmaster with an 861 calibre in original condition. I call it pre-moon because the back does not yet have the famous words inscribed. A, I correct?
I have asked him for a serial number, but he has not yet come back to me.

I would appreciate your feedback on the watch.

Thanks,

Ton

 

Has the seconds hand been replaced? Also, shouldn't the bezel have dot over 90? I think you would need to see movement serial to fully realise originality of the watch. I'm new to these so let the proffessionals chime in!

 

I hope soon to be able to answer all these questions myself once the new book from Greg has arrived.
Until that moment I am also fully dependent on the expertise of they-who-know-it-all.

I find it an intriguing watch because in my humble opinion it is the last of the pre-moon series.

 

I believe the bezel and second hand (big chrono hand) is correct for a 1969 Speedmaster. The dot over 90 appeared up to around the 1967-68 models. I think the hand change was after 1967...need to do a little more research on that. It also has the desirable 1039 bracelet, which would be correct for an early 1969.

 

I didn't think this insert was used on a transitional? I could be wrong.

 

I have several 1969's...will double check when I get home.

 

It should have a DON bezel. Everything else is correct for a 145.022-69. The caseback is in very good shape but the replacement bezel has had a hard life. The DON bezel comes up for sale every once in a while so it could be corrected. I would want to see the movement and serial # before throwing down the cash though. 305XXXXXX is roughly the latest serial number for this configuration.

Hope this helps

 

'69 on my wrist has a DON.

 

Hi,

Both bezels have been on the '69 model: "dot over 90" up to 30.596 and "no aceent" can be seen from 30.589-30.590. Thus, there is an overlapping range...More details in the book

 

Back to this particular model, it is not in very good condition. There are so many 69 models on the market that it is worth waiting a bit...just my opinion

 

Two of my three 1969's have the DON bezel. Possibly another "transitional" thing...using up parts that were still available when watches/cases were assembled.

 

Thanks all. You guys are fantastic. And yes, I ordered the book. Can't wait.

The guys asks €1750 for the watch which is equivalent to $2400. In the EU market that is a very sharp price for a pre-moon watch, even for a transitional watch.
My main reason of interest is that it has the original 1039 bracelet. I would like to place that bracelet on my 1967 pre-moon speedy which I introduced in another thread. Further I thought it could be a great chance to add a good priced 861 calibre to my starting collection. I would wear it with a black leather strap and have it serviced in time.

One of the downsides though is that the seller seems to be clueless. All he knows is that the watch is a 145.022-69, but he has no knowledge of the serial number.
Greg's information is very valuable in this matter. I could ask the seller to make an effort to have the watch opened. It is still $2400 that he is asking, and for that money he should provide the serial number.

What do you guys think of the price?

Thanks,

Ton

 

That is what I mean. Even without the bracelet the watch could be worth that price I think. I have convinced the seller to have the watch opened by a specialist and check the serial. Can't wait.

Btw shouldn't the serial be a 26 or a 27? On Roman Hartmann's serial number chart a 30 would be closer to 1971?

 

The seller just replied saying that the serial is 30.xxx.xxx. What on earth is so secret about a serial number? I have asked him to reveal at least the next three digits.

My question to the knowledgable people is if this serial would belong to a 1969 Speedmaster. As I mentioned before the chart of Roman Hartmann says it is a 70 or maybe even a 71.
Would this watch still be considered a transitional watch?

Many thanks,

Ton

Ps: I will let you know if he tells me the other digits.

 

Have you read my previous post? It seemed I indicated the range for the transition between the 2 bezels on the 69 model.
Forget about hartmann table, this rather corresponds to calibre production year, not model completion.

 

And indeed 30 millions corresponds to a production date of 1970, but as a 145.022-69 case reference. Complex, isn't it?

 

Thanks guys.
Yes, it is complicated.
I would think that a moonwatch in 1970 already had the famous words written all over it.
So I understand that it is still considered a 1969 transitional watch, even though the movement is from 1970.

I need a drink!

 

Why transitional. You need time, you cannot learm everything in 3 days