1958 Omega Seamaster Cal. 500 Ref: 2849-5sc - Redial or what?

Jakku · Feb 18, 2021

Hi all!

Thanks for letting me join! I have been collecting watches for maybe 4 to 5 years, so relatively new to it compared to the older collectors but likewise have owned well over 150 watches (not including job lots and spares I have sold), mostly in the past year alone, so have learned quite a lot. My collection is mainly vintage chronographs and divers among a few plainer watches.

Here is a new one to the collection that in all honestly was a bit of an accident. It was late and I didn't do the usual thinking and research into it prior to bidding and truthfully expected to be outbid. But that aside, what's done is done.

I received it, case is actually in better condition than seller described (blurry photos didn't help this description either), just needed a clean, but movement is a rather sorry state. Was listed as "date not working" but running and keeping time. So first thing I did was check the date and notice the crown just spun right off which explains that issue (date changes fine by itself) and which I think is down to some rust on the stem and likely in the movement. Seller said it was his uncles and left in a drawer for 20 years so perhaps caused by humid conditions, also supported by the slight weathered/water-damaged look of the dial.

So a full service is a must, that we know! But what I am most curious about is the dial (which checks out as genuine to me) and more specifically the Seamaster font. Now using the reference and looking at other examples I'm lead to believe it should be the older "hooked" S font. But likewise I have read stories on this forum of service replacements or even shops that would piece together models, which if the date is 1958 might be when they started to use the newer logos? I would be keen to hear the thoughts of those that are more experienced in Omega watches and their history 😀 (BoR Bracelet is my own and not Omega before anyone says)

I've got a few watches on their way to me and an O&W Landeron 248 dive chronograph in for repair at the moment so I may need to leave this to one side for a while!

Thanks in advance!

padders · Feb 18, 2021

Yes that is a later dial IMO, probably a service replacement. The style is from the 60s, the watch is from circa 1958 as you say. That look with the blocky indices is used on the current replacement dials for many 50s and 60s Omegas so it may have been fitted within the past 20 years.

SkunkPrince · Feb 18, 2021

I agree with my colleague, service dial. If the price is right and I liked the watch, it wouldn't bother me.

Franco · Feb 18, 2021

I think is original but not age-correct. You can see the movement has suffered humidity/water. When the watch was serviced/overhauled, the dial - which also suffered badly - has been replaced with an original (but not age-correct) dial.

Jakku · Feb 18, 2021

padders
Yes that is a later dial IMO, probably a service replacement. The style is from the 60s, the watch is from circa 1958 as you say. That look with the flat blocky indices is used on the current replacement dials for many 50s and 60s Omegas so it may have been fitted within the past 20 years.

SkunkPrince
I agree with my colleague, service dial. If the price is right and I liked the watch, it wouldn't bother me.

Franco
I think is original but not age-correct. Yuo can see the movement has suffered humidity/water. When fixed, the dial which also suffered badly, has been replaced with an original (but not age-correct) dial.

Thank you all, I am amazed at how quick you replied, I am not used to that in other watch forums! I appreciate the help, that logic makes the most sense. It also has an Omega branded crystal so is otherwise very original I believe.

I think I'd agree that a replacement dial doesn't bother me so much, although on a more general level I do prefer the older Seamaster style to the newer 60s one.

I paid £282 posted which is A LOT more than I ever spend on watches, although really I should count my blessings as I've had some great deals over the past year and have probably only spent about £500 on my entire collection after the ones I've sold.

SkunkPrince · Feb 18, 2021

Franco
an original (but not age-correct) dial.

Right, that's what "service dial" means. Dial replaced at service by authorized or factory watchmakers, sourced from the manufacturer.

padders · Feb 18, 2021

Cheap, even with that dial. A nice thing to wear and not worry too much about.

Jones in LA · Feb 18, 2021

...and not that it's a big deal, but this can't be a cal 500 movement -- the jewel count is off and your watch has a calendar complication (which the cal.500 doesn't). I'm guessing yours is running on a cal.503

Jakku · Feb 18, 2021

padders
Cheap, even with that dial. A nice thing to wear and not worry too much about.

Thank you! I've had mixed opinions on the value so I wasn't sure if it was worth keeping or trying to get my money back and focus on some other watches of mine.

Jones in LA
...and not that it's a big deal, but this can't be a cal 500 movement -- the jewel count is off and your watch has a calendar complication (which the cal.500 doesn't). I'm guessing yours is running on a cal.503

The plot thickens! Yes you are right, I'm not sure why that slipped my mind, I have been looking at plenty of Cal 500s. Come to think of it, I think I've messed up with the date changing. I thought I got it when it was on the 14th and it had changed to 15th. But now looking at the sales photos it was definitely on the 15th and still is.

So I suspect the entire movement has been swapped out for a Cal. 500. Or alternatively the dial was replaced with date there just to look the part.

Franco · Feb 18, 2021

SkunkPrince
Right, that's what "service dial" means. Dial replaced at service by authorized or factory watchmakers, sourced from the manufacturer.

Well, actually it could also be a dial taken out of an other watch by a collector or an independent watchmaker .

Not necessarily service dial installed by authorised or factory watchmaker.

That’s why I used the term “original, non age-correct” which includes both possibilities.

Jones in LA · Feb 18, 2021

Jakku
Thank you! I've had mixed opinions on the value so I wasn't sure if it was worth keeping or trying to get my money back and focus on some other watches of mine.

The plot thickens! Yes you are right, I'm not sure why that slipped my mind, I have been looking at plenty of Cal 500s. Come to think of it, I think I've messed up with the date changing. I thought I got it when it was on the 14th and it had changed to 15th. But now looking at the sales photos it was definitely on the 15th and still is.

So I suspect the entire movement has been swapped out for a Cal. 500. Or alternatively the dial was replaced with date there just to look the part.

Oh, my...definitely a thickening plot!

padders · Feb 18, 2021

Why do you think that is a calibre 500? Does it say 500 on the movement?

The cal 500 is a US market low jewel count 17j non date movement, it will often have the OXG import mark. Unless it is a horrible Franken, this is not that, it is a normal rest of the world 503 calendar movement (which has either 19 or 20j), the US market calendar option was the 17j 502. This is not an issue, the movement is correct, it is the dial which is suspect.

Jakku · Feb 18, 2021

Jones in LA
Oh, my...definitely a thickening plot!

I do love a good plot twist, all be it at the detriment of my bank account haha.

padders
The cal 500 is a US market low jewel count 17j non date movement. This is not that, it is a normal rest of the world 503 (which has either 19 or 20j), the US calendar option was the 17j 502. This is not an issue, the movement is correct, it is the dial which is suspect.

Are you sure? The date definitely doesn't seem to be functioning now that I come to think about it and the movement is also marked Cal.500. Although I'd rather it be a 503 and just the dial incorrect 😀

A family member actually passed away on the day I received it so my minds been a bit of a jumble so apologies if I've given any conflicting/incorrect info!

SkunkPrince · Feb 18, 2021

Franco
Well, actually it could also be a dial taken out of an other watch by a collector or an independent watchmaker .

Not necessarily service dial installed by authorised or factory watchmaker.

That’s why I used the term “original, non age-correct” which includes both possibilities.

I suppose it's possible but service dials for older Seamasters have a certain look, and this one has it too.

padders · Feb 18, 2021

Ok I am now much less keen. Unless it is a 503 which has received an incorrect plate, you seem to have a 17j no date 500 movement with a 20j rotor and a presumably non functioning date wheel. Not an inspiring combination!

Jakku
I do love a good plot twist, all be it at the detriment of my bank account haha.

Are you sure? The date definitely doesn't seem to be functioning now that I come to think about it and the movement is also marked Cal.500. Although I'd rather it be a 503 and just the dial incorrect 😀

A family member actually passed away on the day I received it so my minds been a bit of a jumble so apologies if I've given any conflicting/incorrect info!

Jakku · Feb 18, 2021

padders
Ok I am now much less keen. Unless it is a 503 which has received an incorrect plate, you seem to have a 17j no date movement with a 20j rotor and a presumably non functioning date wheel. Not an inspiring combination!

Yup agreed! Seems much more cobbled together than I first presumed. Might be a quick flog on, will hopefully be worth it in parts to someone if not as a whole. A shame but when I bid last minute and noticed it didn't go up any more that was a bit of a red flag anyway. As I say, not my usual method of purchase and evidently for good reason haha.

1958 Omega Seamaster Cal. 500 Ref: 2849-5sc - Redial or what?

Jakku

padders

SkunkPrince

Franco

Jakku

SkunkPrince

padders

Jones in LA

Jakku

Franco

Jones in LA

padders

Jakku

SkunkPrince

padders

Jakku

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