Hello Omega gurus.
Would anyone out there have information on the CK2451 (with a 27 CHRO C12) for the Argentine Air Force?
http://db1983.com/the-collection/omega-ck-2451-argentina-air-force-1950

I haven't seen one like this before and was curious about it. I haven't found any comparables to understand if priced reasonably or not. Any information is welcomed.

Also if anyone knows if it would be 27 CHRO C12, or if it is a T1 or T2 (cal 321).
I am thinking a must be (or like 99% sure) would be a transformation T2 as I believe the T2 started production in 1946?

Thanks all people

 

speaking as somebody who lives in LatAm for 20 yrs now:

in watches ANYTHING associated with Argentine is an instant huge red flag

better spend your money helping a nigerian prince getting money out of the country

 

So a watch produced by OMEGA for the AAF with an extract from the archives and sold by a party in Geneva would still be a big red flag? I hadn't heard that before. Thank you!

 

Where does it say it comes with an archive extract?

 

It's being sold by the Davidoff brothers. You can be fairly sure that it's genuine.

 

Hmmm.... I wonder how a movement from 1946 fits into a (late) 50ies case, dial and hands? The movement looks 10 years older than the other parts of the watch, which seems odd

Why are you requiring about the watch? Are you looking to buy, or are you looking to sell?

 

Argentina has an Air Force? Who would have guessed???????

 

Nah.....prove it!

 

Omega ck 2451 were indeed used by Argentinian Air Force. i saw a black dialled example- my preference, with broad handset- a few months ago on offer from a Japanese consignment shop that would not sell to me in US. he wanted 5k or so. The Davidoff's have nice, authentic goods, but 'taint cheap!

 

The company has said they have an extract from the archives - I contacted them.
chunky and MSN - are you all saying I should not believe them?

LarryG - are you willing to share the consignment shop name for the ck you mention? (I have a friend in Japan so maybe I can ask him to drop by and check out watches at the shop... )

 

Ill try and scour the email files....

 

for the record:

i dont question so much if said watch was delivered to the FAA ... my worries are what has happened to the watches the 10, 20 or 40 years they were in Argentine? Who did the 4,5 6 or 10 services? - given the historic degree of protectionism in Argentina, my guess is - local watchmakers. For those the job was done when a non working watch could be made working (they could bill the military and collect the money) ... by using whatever parts were available in the 50ies or 60ies in a latin american country - I am fairly sure "originality" of replacement parts was pretty low on the priorty list.

That's why up til today 11 out of 10 watches coming out of BsAs or Montevideo are children of many fathers or frankensteins.

As analogy: think US oldtimers that still drive around in Cuba. ... hey, aint that cool, they still work after 40, 50 or 60 years.... but how ORIGINAL are they?

also do a search here on this forum concerning peruvian air force watches ...

If argentines can convert a cheap no-name watch into a U.N. and sell it for 300 bucks (and still make money), do you think they would would have interest in prepping a watch that fetches $8k?

If (big if, admittedly) somebody found historic military files with the case/movement numbers of those watches, they would most def. butcher movements/cases/dials and re-key bridges and cases with those numbers. All those would show up as "legit" on the Omega files in switzerland, wouldn't they? How cool is that!

most definitely a high risk engagement unless you have really deep knowledge of those watches.

 

Thanks al128.
So it sounds you wouldn't trust this seller when they say this watch is all original, and still think this a very risky buy.

Who would you recommend I turn to for comfort if not this seller and their extract? Would the only way to know is to purchase the watch and send to Omega? (Note...I don't live in Geneva or have friends there) Or hire an expert in Omegas who is in Geneva, assuming this seller doesn't know Omegas and may be incorrect about its originality?
Thanks you al128 much for your kind advice

 

After a recent experience, I would venture to say that Omega would verify this piece if it conformed to reasonable believability.
The factory fires that destroyed the documentation around the time this piece was issued seem to lead Bienne to confirm originality based on serials and subjectivity. I would proceed based on your own research of provenance.

 

Wkipedia even says they have 160 aircraft. But then again the reference could have been written and inflated by their war propaganda directorate.

 

I dont know the seller so I cant speak for them - but I would take ANYTHING ANY seller says with a grain of salt ... I sure dislike the artsy-fartsy photos, that seem to show everything but really dont show nothing ... they artificially kept the "depht of field" low and show big parts of the watch out of focus.

Plus the wishbone-piece in the movement shot that says omega seems to be brighter than other parts of the movement ... where have I seen this before: yes! ... in Ulysses N. and Girard P. watches coming out of Argentine:






I think there are military-watch fora on the internet - maybe people can supply with more "hard" information. Better to be safe than sorry!

If you really want to go for it (and I dont blame you it is a lovely looking watch ;-), I'd talk frank with the seller and then based on the information and how accomodating they are (sending it off, etc...) play it by the ear. But be aware that you might run into problems on the other extreme of the deal - specifically when trying to sell the watch in years to come (then you will get all those questions asked

Again, I dont have any factual info on the watch or the seller, all I have is context information.

 

Ohhh....Wikipedia you say. Then is must be true.....

 

As a forum member born, raised and living in Argentina, it is SAD (yes, with capitals), to read some of your posts in this thread, specially the one from a member that says to live in latin america.
Then you can ask the pilots of the glorious RAF or the Royal Navy if Argentina does have an Air Force.
Getting a good idea of where is my place in the group.

Miguel Mendonça
Red flagged in Argentina