1944 Longines 12L

knafel1983 · Apr 23, 2018

I recently picked up a 12L at an estate sale, and have been on the search for a nicer example. I came across this one on another forum, from a reputable seller in Russia. I was told the watch is all original, with the exception of dial and hands being re-lumed. It appears whoever re-lumed the watch, imo, did an excellent job with the superluminova. Does this drastically hurt the value of the watch? Every photo shows the watch after it was re-lumed with an orange/ vintage like hue. The engraving on the back commemorates the officer's 25th year of service in 1944 with the Russian armed forces. I paid $300 for this one.

BenBagbag · Apr 23, 2018

knafel1983
Does this drastically hurt the value of the watch?

Yes.

adi4 · Apr 23, 2018

Value to yourself, maybe not if you want to wear it and enjoy the lume and dial. I think you can do better with some patience, if you're looking for something all original.

knafel1983 · Apr 23, 2018

I already purchased the watch. I figure it's something I can enjoy, with some interesting history, from a respectable brand. Although I've been searching the entire internet for one of these, and can't seem to find many great examples. I might be fooled by looking at the first photo, that the lume was original.

ulackfocus · Apr 23, 2018

knafel1983
I might be fooled by looking at the first photo, that the lume was original.

A little coffee or tea in the lume mix will give it an aged look. 😉

knafel1983
a reputable seller in Russia.

Oxymoron. I don't think you're allowed to use the word "reputable" in the same sentence as "Russian seller". 😁

gatorcpa · Apr 23, 2018

Watch for Russian market with "LXW" mark inside? 😒

Color me dubious.

Still, a nice looking piece. Dial seems to have original printing outside of the obvious relume.

If it isn't a money pit, not a bad buy. I don't believe the commemorative markings on it for one second.
gatorcpa

Syrte · Apr 23, 2018

+1
The commemorative markings must be a fake as this is a 1940s US market watch as has been noted. 12L is a US market version of the 12.68 movemnt and LXW is the US import mark.
But I find the dial patina lovely and the watch is quite nice despite the relume.
Would be good if you could skim that engraving without destroying the case.
Was this the one you paid $300 for ? Getting confused with the estate sale you’re referring to.

knafel1983 · Apr 23, 2018

Lucky for me, I have a junk watch for parts of the same watch I found at a local estate sale. I have another case back or case I could put it in. Or would it even further reduce the value, making it a franken watch? And why do I see so many of these from Russia online?

Anyone know Russian, that can interpret the inscription or document?

knafel1983 · Apr 23, 2018

Syrte
+1
The commemorative markings must be a fake as this is a 1940s US market watch as has been noted. 12L is a US market version of the 12.68 movemnt and LXW is the US import mark.
But I find the dial patina lovely and the watch is quite nice despite the relume.
Would be good if you could skim that engraving without destroying the case.
Was this the one you paid $300 for ? Getting confused with the estate sale you’re referring to.

Yes, I paid $300 for it. The estate sale piece, I found locally, and can use for parts.

ulackfocus · Apr 23, 2018

Have you shown us the estate sale watch?

knafel1983 · Apr 23, 2018

U ulackfocus
Have you shown us the estate sale watch?

Go back through my posts, and you will see it. Or just go down a few posts on the Longines forum, look for Longines 12L Estate Sale Find.

airansun · Apr 23, 2018

I like the watch. I think it’s attractive and the engraving, particularly depending on the translation, makes it more interesting. If the movement is intact and running, I’d say you did okay.

But, I’m more often wrong than right on OF.

knafel1983 · Apr 23, 2018

I was told the watch has been serviced. I doubt it's a money pit. But now I'm curious, is there any way a watch meant for the American market could have made it's way to Russia? I would like to see the evidence of this LXW / 12L thing. I've seen many of these watches from Russian sellers online.

adi4 · Apr 23, 2018

knafel1983
I was told the watch has been serviced. I doubt it's a money pit. But now I'm curious, is there any way a watch meant for the American market could have made it's way to Russia? I would like to see the evidence of this LXW / 12L thing. I've seen many of these watches from Russian sellers online.

If you Google, I think you'll find plenty of evidence that LXW is the marking Longines used for American market watches. Not sure how an American market Longines would have made its way into the USSR back in those days (if it did make its way there then). I wouldn't really trust that it was serviced unless it was from a reputable watchmaker that you trust with evidence of said service.

airansun · Apr 23, 2018

The USSR got Studebaker trucks, Airacobra fighters and all sorts of other stuff from their Allies, including foodstuffs and other miscellaneous small stuff. So, I suppose watches would be possible.

It’s also possible it was taken from an enemy soldier and engraved by the new owner.

Has someone translated the engraving and documents?

gatorcpa · Apr 23, 2018

airansun
So, I suppose watches would be possible.

Possible, yes. Likely, no.

airansun
It’s also possible it was taken from an enemy soldier and engraved by the new owner.

Extremely doubtful. What would a German soldier be doing with a US market watch?
gatorcpa

airansun · Apr 23, 2018

Got me.

knafel1983 · Apr 24, 2018

Either way, I plan on wearing and enjoying it. Btw, here was his email response when I brought it up to him: "You are right, this is an American market watch, that was delivered to Russia according to The Act to Promote the Defense of the United States from march 11, 1941.
Such watches in army was going to the big shots like award gifts. They never was sold to the market.
Аn extract from the army archives confirms that Colonel Benician Leykin, born in 1898, is a real figure and served in the red army since June 1919. Hi served 25 years at the time when he was presented with this watch."

gatorcpa · Apr 24, 2018

This could be true, but it will be very difficult to prove without some kind of independent verification.

Here’s what we do know:

1. Movement was made in 1942 as per this website:

http://www.vintagewatchresources.com/year_identifier.php

So a 1944 presentation is feasible.

2. The recipient was a pretty high ranking officer in the Red Army. Depending on his job, he may have had contact with American officers or access to luxury goods like an imported watch.

3. There is no question that war material was sent by the US to the USSR at that time. Whether that included Longines watches, I have no clue.

4. Ordinarily, I would recommend sending an email off to Longines for verification. In this case, I’m pretty sure they would say that the watch was delivered to the US. But you never know, and the price is right.

https://www.longines.com/certificate-of-authenticity

A full translation of the inscription and service record would be helpful to answering some of these questions.

Good luck,
gatorcpa

knafel1983 · Apr 24, 2018

Kind of a shame that the seller re-lumed the watch. Here's a photo he sent me of the watch before it was re-lumed. Not bad at all, especially the dial. Maybe just a touch up of the minute hand would have been fine. He claims his family was afraid of the radiation?! From my understanding, the radiation was never enough to harm anyone.

1944 Longines 12L

knafel1983

BenBagbag

adi4

knafel1983

ulackfocus

gatorcpa

Syrte

knafel1983

knafel1983

ulackfocus

knafel1983

airansun

knafel1983

adi4

airansun

gatorcpa

airansun

knafel1983

gatorcpa

knafel1983

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