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1861/1863 - Can you damage the Chrono cam? How does the movement wear?

  1. Maximus84 Dec 2, 2014

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    I was playing with the Chrono on my new Speedy earlier, trying to see how accurately I could start/stop it. This involved a few stop/start operations in quick succession, but nothing too harsh.

    It now looks like where the upper cam meets the lever for the hour sub-register, there is a slight mark on the edge (of the lever). There is also a very small piece of material (probably just less than a mm long, as fine as a hair, if not finer) on the screw pivot of said lever. It looks like it could've come off the end of the lever that meets the cam.

    Have I been too rough with it, causing a piece of metal to sheer off the cam/lever? I have the display back so I can see this and will be heartbroken if I've damaged it in any way! Is this cause for return?

    I'm sorry I can't put a picture up, I don't have the hardware to pick out that much detail.
     
    Edited Dec 2, 2014
  2. Maximus84 Dec 3, 2014

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    Anyone?
     
  3. cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Dec 3, 2014

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    The watch should be examined be a qualified watchmaker before further use. The last thing you want is any lose bits of metal free inside your watch.
     
  4. Maximus84 Dec 3, 2014

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    Thank you. I'm taking it in to the place I bought it from. I believe one of their staff is a watchmaker (they are advertised as such).

    If the case back has to come off, will a new gasket be needed in order to maintain the integrity of the water resistance?

    Also, is it normal to see visible signs of wear on the movement when it's so new?
     
  5. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 3, 2014

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    The "hour sub register" or hour recorder, has the entire mechanism under the dial, so that is not what you are seeing. You can only see the runners for the chronograph seconds, and the minute counter from the back side of the watch. It's not likely that anything you have done has damaged the watch, so if there is debris there, it was there when the watch was purchased, and has likely just moved to a spot where it can be seen now.

    Without seeing a photo of it that clearly shows what you are looking at, I can't say if this might be debris, or grease that has been smeared, etc.

    Gasket should be quite new if this is a new watch, so just would need some Fomblin grease applied, and then a pressure test after.

    Cheers, Al
     
  6. Maximus84 Dec 3, 2014

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    Thanks Archer, I appreciate your feedback.

    What I meant was the lever that is attached to the upper cam that then moves the pin on the dial side of the movement in order to release the hour register. It seems the corner of the shuttle where it hits the lower cam, and the part of the upper cam where it activates said lever have worn due to the friction between them.

    I took it back to the AD, who has an Omega specialist in there (not sure how qualified he is as a watchmaker tho).

    He looked at it under a loupe and thought it might be differences in finish (polished instead of brushed) instead of frictional wear. I'm not convinced as it doesn't look uniform to me.

    He did agree that the fibre that's in there clearly shouldn't be though. They're going to send pics and a description to Omega and see what they advise. Hopefully they'll take it to get that piece of debris out and check over the Chrono mechanism while they're at it.

    I'll try and post some pics up if I can get a decent setting ony camera to work.

    Cheers.
     
  7. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 3, 2014

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    I need a photo - without you using the proper terminology for the parts I can't really understand what you are talking about. No levers are attached to cams - they might be in contact with them, but they are not attached, so very difficult to follow your descriptions.

    Cheers, Al
     
  8. Maximus84 Dec 3, 2014

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    Sorry, it must be frustrating when someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about asks for help! image.jpg
    This isn't my watch but hopefully it'll help illustrate what I mean. The cam is the piece in roughly the 1-2 O'clock position as the picture is oriented. As I understand it, the shuttle, just below it, strikes the lower cam, moving the whole thing clockwise. The left edge of the shuttle as we see it here looks to have worn slightly on the corner where it hits the lower cam. The upper cam is in contact with the long lever that runs from the 10 O'clock the the cam and moves each time the upper cam moves. Again, the friction on this contact appears to have worn the contact point and the surface finishing. I have also seen wear on the plate(?) that is connected to the start-stop pusher and initiates the shuttle. This is on the slot that slides up and down the screw that you can see just to the right of where it says OMEGA on the bridge.

    The piece of debris is a small, fibre-like element perhaps a mm or so long and is balancing halfway on the pivot screw of that lever, and half on the lever.

    I hope this had cleared up what I am banging on about slightly - the AD is in possession of the watch now so I can't take any pics of it! Thank you for your patience!!
     
  9. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 3, 2014

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    Okay - glad I didn't try to guess...and thanks for the photo to help orient me to the parts you are referring to.

    What you call the cams are indeed the upper and lower cams, but the part you are calling the shuttle is the connecting lever. This part contacts the lower cam and does cause it to rotate - it rotates clockwise on one push, and counter clockwise on the next.

    The longer piece you mention that is actuated by the upper cam is the hour recorder yoke.

    The plate you refer to that is connected to the stop/start pusher at one end, and moves the connecting lever at the other is called the operating lever.

    The finish on these parts depends on the model, and with yours being a display back model, these parts will have a straight grain finish applied.

    Note that the contact surfaces between all these pieces are lubricated with grease, so if they appear somewhat darker that the surrounding material, it might not necessarily be wear, but grease that is in the area. The grease is needed to prevent wear long term, and also make the operation of the watch smoother and easier.

    Of course the contact points between surfaces that meet and have force applied to them will wear over time - that is simply a fact of life. Note that before the watch gets to you, it has been run, adjusted, tested, etc. so these parts have been used already before you ever get your hands on it. Unless you pushed the stop/start/reset hundreds of times or something, I can't believe that you caused any significant wear.

    Without being able to see what you are referring to either first hand or in photos, I can't say if it's normal or not.

    Certainly if there is a piece of lint or fiber inside the watch that you can see easily with the naked eye, that should be removed, but the "wear" you are seeing could be completely normal, or not wear at all - I can't say at this point.

    Cheers, Al
     
  10. Maximus84 Dec 3, 2014

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    Thanks for the full and frank reply - learning has taken place! My only knowledge of the inner workings has come from an article Inread a few days that details the 1861/63 specifically. At least I know what everything is called now!

    It's odd how I didn't notice these perceived 'flaws' until after Injad operated the Chrono a good few times in quick succession. It certainly wasn't hundreds of times or with undue force. Out
    if interest, is there any limitation on how quick the start-stop button can be pressed and pressed again, being a mechanical operation as opposed to electronic?

    I'm glad you've explained the application of the grease and difference in finish etc - it helps me understand how these pieces of art/engineering (not being in either of those fields myself) are crafted.

    I think I maybe desire absolute perfection and thought that as the movement has been put together with such fine tolerances, and is sealed from environmental factors, it would be perfect and stay that way! It's a trait which often frustrates!

    I'll update when I hear from the AD/Omega - by the sounds of it I should at least expect the fibre to be eliminated.

    Cheers!
     
  11. usfpaul82 Dec 3, 2014

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    Hey Maximus, start learning to just enjoy your great watch my friend! :)
     
  12. Mothra Dec 4, 2014

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    Maximus, one thing I will say -sometimes you don't notice stuff right up until you do, then you can't not see them. I call it 'the golden shaft of light effect' and its particularly dangerous for me when buying motorcycles. To demonstrate what I mean, I owned a speedy reduced for two years which had a blemish on the dial. I never saw it until I took a macro of the dial preparing for sale. I had to check back on my purchase photos and confirmed the spot had been there the whole time. Once I noticed, I had to declare it, which destroyed my resale value. Then again, I am the guy that wore another speedy for four months before notice the minute hand was 15 mins put on the hour. All I'm saying is sometimes you don't see stuff...
     
  13. Maximus84 Dec 18, 2014

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    An update!

    I took the watch to my AD, whose in-house watchmaker confirmed he could see a bit of debris on the screw that affixes the hour recorder yoke (thanks Archer for educating me on the correct terminology!).

    It was sent off to the UK Omega Service Centre and I received it back today. They too could see the debris, and thus to ensure the integrity of the watch performed a full Cat 3 service.

    It was returned to me in 2 weeks in perfect condition and even sent back in a nice Omega leather travel case. There is still a slight mark on the hour recorder yoke on the upper surface around where it contacts the upper cam. I am led to believe it might be lubricant, which is fine, although I would've thought any excess would have been removed?

    Anyway, excellent service from both my AD and Omega and I am now once again a happy owner! I can now fully enjoy my watch! Just gotta see if they've improved on the +5 seconds/day timekeeping it had before I sent it!

    Thanks for everyone's input!
     
  14. DJP Dec 18, 2014

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    Really pleased for you that it's sorted. Such a nightmare when something like this happens.
     
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  15. Maximus84 Dec 18, 2014

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    Thanks, it's been a long-drawn out affair to get to this point but now (hopefully) there'll be many years of enjoyment to be had. And maybe another watch or two to build a collection...
     
  16. DJP Dec 18, 2014

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    So what's on your radar?
     
  17. Maximus84 Dec 18, 2014

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    Haha. Well, I saw the new X-33 today and that certainly caught my eye, but my next will probably be something a bit more dressy. Maybe an AT of some description, although I do like the POs (which obviously isn't dressy).
     
  18. Maximus84 Dec 22, 2014

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    Well, it seems the Watch now runs at +2/3 seconds per day, which is 2/3 seconds more accurate than before the service!

    Can't argue with that!
     
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