Forums Latest Members
  1. palatine May 5, 2016

    Posts
    282
    Likes
    274
    can anyone tell me why these watches are both speedmasters and seamasters at the same time?

    your help would be appreciate your help

    TIA

    ira
     
    jedi.JPG jedi 2.JPG
  2. gop76 May 5, 2016

    Posts
    754
    Likes
    2,419
    The second one or is a rare prototype or has the wrong dial.

    I go for the wrong dial
     
  3. Andy K Dreaming about winning an OFfie one day. May 5, 2016

    Posts
    1,819
    Likes
    5,884
    Agree.
    Both are less than 100% original. Even if the dial is correct on the first, the hands and bezel aren't right for the dial. The second one is likely a dial replaced at service at some point.

    176.005 is decidedly a Seamaster reference. The most common dial type have "wedge" hour markers (Type G as I call it here: https://omegaforums.net/threads/an-encyclopedia-of-omega-cal-1040-and-1041-dials.36789/) though the Type I dial shown on the first is seen frequently, and a member here even has a truly NOS 176.005 with that dial.
     
    gop76 likes this.
  4. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months May 5, 2016

    Posts
    9,217
    Likes
    23,877
    is that the jrpippen dial?
     
  5. gop76 May 5, 2016

    Posts
    754
    Likes
    2,419
    No. It's his cousin :D
     
  6. Andy K Dreaming about winning an OFfie one day. May 5, 2016

    Posts
    1,819
    Likes
    5,884
    You mean this?
    42.176.005ST-redial.jpg
    The one the OP shows at least has the hour markers installed in the correct direction!
     
    oddboy likes this.
  7. oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months May 5, 2016

    Posts
    9,217
    Likes
    23,877
    there's more than one?! :eek:
     
  8. palatine May 5, 2016

    Posts
    282
    Likes
    274
  9. dialstatic May 6, 2016

    Posts
    924
    Likes
    1,772
    I hate to disagree with the late great Maddox (especially as a newbie) but I strongly suspect all 176.005 to be Seamasters, and this particular dial being correct only for a 176.002 Speedy mk. III.
     
    Andy K likes this.
  10. palatine May 6, 2016

    Posts
    282
    Likes
    274
    So how come there are so many "speedy" dials fitted to these watches in particular? Head getting mashed with this lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. JimInOz Melbourne Australia May 6, 2016

    Posts
    15,399
    Likes
    32,159
    Thank Yoooooooooooooou!

    I'll clean the Lagavulin spray off my screen all by myself!
     
    oddboy likes this.
  12. Andy K Dreaming about winning an OFfie one day. May 6, 2016

    Posts
    1,819
    Likes
    5,884

    Chuck Maddox's article about the Mark Speedmasters that you reference was and still is the most important (IMO) article on cal. 1040 chronographs that I've found. I first read it while he was still alive and I continue to refer to it frequently. Chuck was funny, prolific, well-researched, and well connected. But to me his best attributes were his generosity to the community and also his willingness to evolve his often strong opinions when confronted with new information. I have a hunch that if Chuck were still with us he may have come to the conclusion that what he referred to as the IIIb, IIIc, and IVb are really just swapped dials.

    Nothing authoritative has ever surfaced pointing to these being original dial/case variants. The period ads and catalogs don't show them. And in recent years proof has surfaced that Omega has been known to accidentally install Mark III dials in other case references during service.

    Three possible reasons:
    1. Intentional modding at service - the owner wanted a new look and sought out a different dial
    2. Intentional "Frankenwatch" - can be done because the seller has a bunch of 1040 parts and wants to assemble a working watch with the resources he has, or to create something rare or unique to deceive buyers into thinking they are buying something rare and valuable
    3. Unintentional replacement at service - due to the either the lack of appropriate replacement parts (Omega originally offered 27 dials for cal. 1040, they now carry 9), or the similarity of some replacement parts, the watch comes back with something other than what was ever originally for sale by Omega. This is known to happen.

    Also, for some reason, of all the cal. 1040 references 176.005 seems to be the reference that acquires the most deterioration. The crystal gasket is notoriously tricky, which may be the cause for so many decaying dials and bezels. If true, then they are more likely to get a new dial installed during service.
     
    Edited May 6, 2016
    palatine, gop76 and TNTwatch like this.
  13. palatine May 6, 2016

    Posts
    282
    Likes
    274
    thanks for the replies chaps...