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16k Euro for a new UG. Are you buying one?

Evitzee
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I believe many people are still hoping for a Blancpain-style bonanza where J-C Biver and Jacques Piguet bought the Blancpain name for CHF 21,500 in 1981 from SSIH, soundly developed the company and sold Blancpain and Piguet to the Swatch Group in 1992 for CHF 60,000,000. Ka-ching. But times have changed and capturing lightning in a bottle is very, very difficult. Trying to make Universal Geneve into a luxury brand will be very long and very difficult, and may not be possible.
 
Verdi
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paulmiami paulmiami
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/in-depth-universal-geneve-acquisition

Very balanced article, especially the information on how back in the day UGs were 1/3rd the price of Patek. In this context, the proposed msrp for the 36mm stainless Polerouter seems high.
Thanks for sharing it. I missed this article on UG when it was published.
All points mentioned are 100% valid and in line with what I also think. Bear in mind that when it was written back in Jan, there was no indication on the pricing.
Put all those arguments in the context of 16k Euros starting price and matters look even worse for UG’s planned market strategy.

.
 
paulmiami
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https://www.chrono24.com/patekphili...37354517.htm?searchHash=b9ec0056_umsGwY&pos=1

The Hodinkee article was a real eye opener for me. Too bad grandfather didn’t buy a Patek 1518 instead as the 1940s 3x price difference would today be 25x vs a Tri Compax. To quote Hodinkee if UG was a “working man Patek”, then 16k euro for a simple 36mm steel watch seems high as there are gorgeous Speedy and Tudor alternatives at half the price. And these brands have uncomplicated impeccable history.
Edited:
 
paulmiami
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vibe vibe
It seems like a really expensive and ambitious project to get UG up and going at that level. Breitling must be quite the cash cow. It’s also crazy that the brand sold for $70M. Was it just for the brand + IP or were there fixed assets?
Terms of the deal were not disclosed, which is the norm for PE. Someone mentioned the money is disbursed over 5 years. Perhaps there are contingencies. We don’t know. And keep in mind this is not a strategic buyer. So even before closing the deal they were thinking about their exit. Maybe this adds critical mass to Breitling and that’s the value? Who knows.
 
Verdi
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Fast forward…..2 years later. UG has been relaunched and we can look back on our “excitement”.
My 2 cents at the time was that UG is gonna be in the wrong market segment price wise.

We now know what the first models are going to look like. The SAS Polerouters look spot on….you can’t go wrong with that iconic Genta case.
The Compax series looks like the Breitling a bit too much for my taste.

Now, would I buy any of these new UGs at +15K usd? My answer is still no.
How about you?
 
Larry S
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Verdi Verdi
Fast forward…..2 years later. UG has been relaunched and we can look back on our “excitement”.
My 2 cents at the time was that UG is gonna be in the wrong market segment price wise.

We now know what the first models are going to look like. The SAS Polerouters look spot on….you can’t go wrong with that iconic Genta case.
The Compax series looks like the Breitling a bit too much for my taste.

Now, would I buy any of these new UGs at +15K usd? My answer is still no.
How about you?
All I’ve seen are the three tribute pcs. What are you looking at? The website has no new watches yet. Odds of me buying a new 15k watch in retirement are low.
 
Verdi
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Larry S Larry S
All I’ve seen are the three tribute pcs. What are you looking at? The website has no new watches yet. Odds of me buying a new 15k watch in retirement are low.
Those are the ones Im referring to. We didnt have any pics back in ‘24. Its not much but it shows something. The chronos do not have anything from UG pedigree in my opinion. If you erase the UG writing from the dial it could be any brand.
The rest of the collections should be out before fall.
 
Radius321
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if we are assuming that all the modern UGs will be priced higher than their vintage counterparts, I would just never buy one when I can get the vintage, for example if they are going to sell a steel polerouter for 15k+ you can get into a head only evil clapton or evil nina for that?
 
Larry S
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Verdi Verdi
The chronos do not have anything from UG pedigree in my opinion. If you erase the UG writing from the dial it could be any brand.
Exactly. Those of us who love the brand know full well that the factory was basically looted by enthusiasts who have the parts, documents, drawings and that the husk of the company bought by Breitling does not include much. Still, if they do a good job with this launch, the value of our collections will at least be maintained I hope.
 
Radius321
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Larry S Larry S
Exactly. Those of us who love the brand know full well that the factory was basically looted by enthusiasts who have the parts, documents, drawings and that the husk of the company bought by Breitling does not include much. Still, if they do a good job with this launch, the value of our collections will at least be maintained I hope.
agreed however I think the 'IP' of UG was worth something but have yet to see anything that would warrant any interest from collectors
 
Diabolik
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I don't see anything weird in a "tri moon" hitting those figures. Yes it is a little high but believe that they have been undervalued for decades and are just catching up ! UG have always been a prestige brand with some very unique references that paved the way for many other Swiss houses ...

I am sure there will be buyers for the new (old) polerouter references. Just wish I had the money to go for one of each and lock them up in a water/air tight box for a hundred years !
 
Radius321
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Diabolik Diabolik
I don't see anything weird in a "tri moon" hitting those figures. Yes it is a little high but believe that they have been undervalued for decades and are just catching up ! UG have always been a prestige brand with some very unique references that paved the way for many other Swiss houses ...

I am sure there will be buyers for the new (old) polerouter references. Just wish I had the money to go for one of each and lock them up in a water/air tight box for a hundred years !
honestly i feel allot of the future tri-compax clapton market would be effected if omega just came out with a speedy moonphase in 42mm in the professional case, put it in a panda or reverse or just simple black we are onto a winner and only charge me £10k
 
S
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If UG does things properly—that is, by releasing innovative models or faithful reissues with interesting movements and well-executed finishing (the Geneva Seal, for example)—it could work. It would be difficult, but not unrealistic.





Personally, what worries me most is seeing vintage UG prices climb to unreasonable levels. Dealers won’t hesitate to play on UG’s new positioning to push prices up.
 
CaseStudy
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The hodinkee article above still hits the nail on the head two years later.

So the new parent company narrows in on two (of many) icons from when the brand was well matured. Popular picks. Finishing looks serious and the horology is supposedly on par as well. Better than just re-tweaking their current inventory.

Still, pole prices are off the charts, or new gold ninas are sold as a three-pack. Everyone winces. Those choices feel like this is more about brand positioning than pride in the product. Their marketing material tries to focus on the latter, actions speak louder. Will relaunching UG into the stratosphere chill fans and create an undesired perception of fast profit over lasting passion?

A genuine relaunch deserves a genuine catalog. What they choose to offer below those two headliners this autumn should be illuminating. When UG was selling those watches you had a whole ladder of references to climb before you got to them; hype from the heyday isn’t necessarily a brand. Does the revival want to appreciate that, or do they believe they know a shortcut to being loved?
 
Radius321
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CaseStudy CaseStudy
The hodinkee article above still hits the nail on the head two years later.

So the new parent company narrows in on two (of many) icons from when the brand was well matured. Popular picks. Finishing looks serious and the horology is supposedly on par as well. Better than just re-tweaking their current inventory.

Still, pole prices are off the charts, or new gold ninas are sold as a three-pack. Everyone winces. Those choices feel like this is more about brand positioning than pride in the product. Their marketing material tries to focus on the latter, actions speak louder. Will relaunching UG into the stratosphere chill fans and create an undesired perception of fast profit over lasting passion?

A genuine relaunch deserves a genuine catalog. What they choose to offer below those two headliners this autumn should be illuminating. When UG was selling those watches you had a whole ladder of references to climb before you got to them; hype from the heyday isn’t necessarily a brand. Does the revival want to appreciate that, or do they believe they know a shortcut to being loved?
You make a interesting point out a proper catalogue, I think they would of been better off doing what Lange did in the 90s with their relaunch by coming out with 3 model lines and then filling out each year from there, will see what 26 brings
 
Jim_
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Lange may be the best example of a resurrected brand that makes high quality, innovative watches that go beyond replaying the greatest hits from the past. But, they built their current reputation over a couple decades; private equity (e.g., Breitling) doesn't have anywhere near that long of a time horizon in mind.
Also, despite pandering to the high-profile "brand experts", the target market for the new UG is not vintage watch collectors.
 
Larry S
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Personally more likely to sell off a bunch and chase Nina or Clapton than a reissue.
 
G___
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Jim_ Jim_
Also, despite pandering to the high-profile "brand experts", the target market for the new UG is not vintage watch collectors.
Ah no. "Wealthy dipshits seeking limited edition status things to one up each other" is a GREAT market segment. Just remember the artificial scarcity.
 
Larry S
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CaseStudy CaseStudy
The hodinkee article above still hits the nail on the head two years later.

So the new parent company narrows in on two (of many) icons from when the brand was well matured. Popular picks. Finishing looks serious and the horology is supposedly on par as well. Better than just re-tweaking their current inventory.

Still, pole prices are off the charts, or new gold ninas are sold as a three-pack. Everyone winces. Those choices feel like this is more about brand positioning than pride in the product. Their marketing material tries to focus on the latter, actions speak louder. Will relaunching UG into the stratosphere chill fans and create an undesired perception of fast profit over lasting passion?

A genuine relaunch deserves a genuine catalog. What they choose to offer below those two headliners this autumn should be illuminating. When UG was selling those watches you had a whole ladder of references to climb before you got to them; hype from the heyday isn’t necessarily a brand. Does the revival want to appreciate that, or do they believe they know a shortcut to being loved?
Interesting points on brand building. We shall see. JLC is certainly a high horology company with a long pedigree, but because they also make “affordable” models in SS, they get a level of shade from the VC, PP, AP etc crowd. What direction will UG go?
 
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