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1665 Double Red - expertise needed

  1. Seaborg May 9, 2019

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    Dear OF members,

    As some of you already know, I've been offered recently a 1665 Double Red for trade.
    It's described as a MK3 dial, and comes full set (box + papers + Rolex service card). Apparently the case was recut and the insert is a service one (80's period).
    I have sollicitated several experts (that I'm CLEARLY not as a complete newbie in Rolex watches).
    By the way, I really want to highlight the experts kindly answered my questions, thank you so much guys :thumbsup:;) !

    Nevertheless, the opinions diverge. Two said the watch is fine (some chips on the dial) and one said the dial is fake ! As a result, I post here for more advices about this particular watch as this watch would make me trade half of my Speedy collection :oops:, so I need to be sure...

    Thank you all for your precious help :thumbsup:.

    Here are the pictures I have.

    fullsizeoutput_17aa.jpeg A1H5yX8mRvS�hynm2hFw.jpg FbP969h1QUmhzxxHALPnkQ.jpg fullsizeoutput_17c9.jpeg JmcGMmEsTNaAtBdc1CqUcw.jpg K2C7edkZSeGPBlJ26 nA2g.jpg N9g1FrakQb6 P18NccE9QA.jpg oJAa2wGkSuSXzSA2pU3Zyw.jpg papIkIlcSDqI4kCY2p9GbQ.jpg U�oLwQT0OI6Wc0MWnDLA.jpg v �1N1QkCSwswxJWBqOw.jpg Wo �2VSwmQOEQUdo4Y7Q.jpg XeT0IE0CS0 iCawQF0ek Q.jpg xU1XRKgwSneSxIpjHEW1DA.jpg
     
  2. juju May 9, 2019

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    I don't own a 1665 but have a couple vintage subs, my 2 cents:

    - If you want advice on the authenticity of the dial you need high-res macro shots of the dial facing straight at the camera and with the hands the out of the way (if the seller is uncooperative that would be a red flag...)

    - The insert seems to have a thinner flat 4 serif font which would indicate late '70s early '80s and be consistent with the 9350 bracelet

    - Personally I would be ready to forgo the complete set for a nicer case (it seems to me that the crown guards are a bit soft and the chamfers have been widened on some lugs)

    Otherwise that tritium looks damn good!
     
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  3. sdre May 9, 2019

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    Seaborg likes this.
  4. bigsom May 9, 2019

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    Honestly, the crop photos of the lume plots aren't good enough to make a judgement by texture or other factors. Also the UV shot really needs to be directly shone on the dial. All the 3 million sports dials i've seen have a significant number of small particles that reflect UV with high intensity in a background of dull material. They show up as shining little dots within the lume plot which of course can be recreated by reclaiming the material from one dial and using it on another. That said when it's clean and even with the right texture and the right UV reactivity, I tend to like it as a package.

    However, I haven't seen a ton of DRSD in hand - but I've never seen (even in photos) a straight ft dial (mk 1, 2, 3) with that much spacing between 2000 ft = 600 m

    That doesn't mean the dial is fake (though I think it might be), but it does not fit neatly into the dials that people use as references from drsd.com

    So while i am no expert and I've handled a total of 3 drsd (two mk 3 and one mk 4) ... please take my thoughts with a large grain of salt
     
    Edited May 9, 2019
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  5. alfanator May 9, 2019

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    Check out drsd.com if you have not already. Hard to tell from the photos, do the lume plots have a waffle texture?

    Did the one that said it is fake say specifically why?
     
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  6. leefowler May 9, 2019

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    As already said, much better dial shots are needed.
     
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  7. Seaborg May 9, 2019

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    Thank you guys.

    I've just asked for a macro shot of the dial with the hands set at 15h45.
    Very prompt (and kind) answer from the owner (unfortunatly, he doesn't have a macro lense).
    Here it is ::popcorn::

    yDVCW8E3RLKPDtpoBoHfRw.jpg
     
    Edited May 9, 2019
  8. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' May 9, 2019

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    Looking forward to the pictures!

    :coffee:
     
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  9. Seaborg May 9, 2019

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    Damn... Automatic french corrector.... Sorry guys :whipped::D
     
  10. Seaborg May 9, 2019

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    Here is a quick comparison of the DRSD.com picture (top) and the one of this actual 1665 (bottom : first without post-processing and second with the contrast increased).

    1.jpeg 2.jpg
    2bis.jpg
     
  11. Seaborg May 9, 2019

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    And now another zoomed picture of the dial from one of the first pictures provided.

    2 ter.jpg
     
  12. corn18 May 9, 2019

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    the = seems to be off on the OP watch. It's further left than the DRSD pic.
     
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  13. 77deluxe May 9, 2019

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    Can’t tell for certain from the photos but the date wheel looks like a service part. It should be silver instead of white. Case looks ok at best, would like better pics of helium escape valve as it appears there is little depth there. Crown guard closeups would help. Assuming dial is correct, price is a big factor.

    @watchknut?
     
    Edited May 9, 2019
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  14. Seaborg May 9, 2019

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    Sorry, I've forgotten the crown guard... Here it is.

    7mX9HbhkS16njG9JJ5WSow.jpg
     
  15. alfanator May 9, 2019

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    Some observations:
    The 2000 looks different in both font style in the 2 and spacing of the 0 and ft, in 2000 ft.
    The A in Submariner also looks different from the control version. Straight vs convex sides.
    The texture of the lume plots also look different. Waffle vs not.
     
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  16. 77deluxe May 9, 2019

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    crown guards look fine. Spring bar looks extremely close to popping/sticking out of the lug hole.... someone should jump in soon with better MK3 DSRD dial experience
     
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  17. opahman May 9, 2019

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    Do the hands look odd or is it just me??
     
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  18. 77deluxe May 9, 2019

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    Not as odd as the dial.
     
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  19. alfanator May 9, 2019

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    Seaborg and 77deluxe like this.
  20. wsfarrell May 9, 2019

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    After a lot of comparisons of the line spacing in the 3 white lines of text (2 in 2000 over R in SUPERLATIVE; R in SUPERLATIVE over F in OFFICIALLY; etc. etc.) I'd say the dial is good. The crown guards are a little thin for my taste, though.