I found this on Ebay. The dial is probably that of an 861 yet it's being advertised as an all-original 105.012. The bidding is outlandish. I'm not sure the chap selling the watch knows any better, based on the description. Very unfortunate for the buyer if this isn't stopped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190993122623Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

 

people love stories. they bid accordingly. here they want a piece of history. maybe a boring investmaent banker hopes, the history of this watch will rub off on him and make him more interesting........ nothing to do with the dial. if they want it, they will pay for it. i had the opposite recently, a late 1960`s speedy 321 with an all original 2998 dial. nice..... kind regards., achim

 

I thought 321 and 861 dials were not interchangeable.
Are they?
What is the reason to be or not?

 

Does 321 and 861 dials have the hands holes in the exact same position with the same distance in between?

 

It also has c861 hands. I don't know what to make of that dial. The hour markers extend to the periphery like a 321 dial and the Omega is characteristic of the 861 dial. The case looks o'k, the movement looks o'k, and it has the proper bezel. The case back is correct. The crown is a replacement and I assume the pushers are also. The price is still not too high. It's hard/impossible to find a 321 under $3000 but I imagine this one will go above that before the end of the auction.

 

The holes in the dial are in the same locations for the 861 and 321. It's the same base movement really...

However the dials are not swapped without doing some work. The dial feet are different lengths and different diameters, so modifications would have to be made to make one work on another. The 321 uses a cam style screw accessed from the train side of the movement to hold the dial feet, while the 861 uses a small dial foot screw that is accessed on the edge of the movement.

In this photos the 321 dial is on the left, 861 on the right:



Cheers, Al

 

Thanks Al,
Not that I'm intereted in swapping them but just had curiosity about it.
Are the feet also in the same location?

 

Yes same location...

Al

 

Thanks

 

why not go for a different one? there are many on the bay at any given time........ kind regards. achim................ http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/190988818647?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2648Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network .

 

That's a very good question

 

Really interested on this question.
Calling Archer

 

There are 2 options - one is that there was an 861 dial made that had the applied logo and 321 dial characteristics, or two that the took the 321 dials they had and replaced the dial feet.

I can't really say which it was. Sorry I know you guys are interested in these details, but often I don't really pay attention to them when I'm servicing the watch. If I get a transitional in, I will certainly pay attention next time....if I remember....

Cheers, Al

 

Yeah, we're weird like that.

 

Yeah, like we're watch nerds, like yeah...

 

Well I accept that the 321 dials and 861 dials may be different in spec........
but it think they do go on.

I'm finally on my way back to my safe, after two months away.

i have bare movements and dials, I'll drop them together and post pictures.....


i know know I a butcher.

 

"but it think they do go on."

What's the song by Journey...Don't stop believing....

But the simple truth is that they won't - sorry! Let me save you some time - I just took a few photos to put this to bed...hopefully!

Here I have measured the dial foot for the 321 - it measures about 1.07 mm in diameter:



Here I have measured the dial foot diameter of the 861 - it measures about 0.94 mm:



That means you either modify the dial feet, or get out the hammer! Not quite like fitting a square peg in a round hole, but trying to put a round rod in a hole that is far too small...321 dial feet will not fit in the holes on an 861.



But go ahead, check all you want mate.

Cheers, Al

 

I like it..Don't Fk with the expert, he knows his sh t! And thanks for the mid-day Journey break Al, a little Detroit rock is always good.