105.012 on LBC - Case study

Killwolf · Dec 24, 2025

Hello OF community,

As newbie in the vintage speedmaster world, I was wondering if you could give me some feedback, help and tips in how to assess the quality of a vintager speed. Here is an example of a speed listing on a french site. I am not willing to buy it, but I’m trying to improve my knowledge to better estimate the next one when time will come. (Also please forgive my English)

The watch is supposed to be a 105.012-66.

What I can see:

Dial has been relumed (not the same on 1st picture than on the last one where it was missing)
Chrono hand: not the drop of a 105.012. Not genuine. Replacement by an original one should be considered for pricing.
General comment on the hands : Given that the chrono hand has been replaced, I’d say all of them have been. The greenish color of the lume isn’t very attractive but I don’t know if that match the hands of this period in term of color. Is it Tritium / I don’t know. Anyway the chrono hand isn’t matching.
Bracelet: Reference not mat ching with a 105.012. Worse the endlinks don’t even fit properly. That’s a piece that I would have to remove from the watch. Decreasing the value. I’d consider the watch only in the pricing exercise.

Bezel: Some signs of age, marked bezel. I would rate it as ‘poor’ to ‘fair’.
Dial: Difficult to say, would need some better quality picture, but at first glance it seems OK. Would rank it as Good, pending better pictures.
Caliber: S/N 24 53x xxx ok with the period.

Case: Seem to have been polished, but the edges are still present. I would say ‘fair to good’
Pushers: Seem legit to me, flat and do not look to be service ones.
Crowns: Replacement one. 32feet.

The seller is asking 6500EUR, which I consider as overpriced given the hands and bracelet issues. If the dial is confirmed as OK, I’d judge the price tag around 5500EUR but very unsure ?

Curious to get your feedback and advises.

EDIT: Just met Anthony Marquie, author of the MWO at the terrasse of a Café this morning, what a pleasant start of the day !

Ron_W · Dec 24, 2025

A relumed dial but they did not do the hands ?
Now there is a colour difference which is not attractive to me.

The movement picture show the pushers are sticking out a bit to far i think, maybe not placed deep enough in the caseband ? Hopefully one of OF watchmakers can say more about it.
Plus the relume and damaged bezel it is not a very attractive watch imo and even € 5500,- would be to much for me.

Dan S · Dec 24, 2025

To better understand how condition affects value, I suggest that you read online resources and follow along with the many Speedmaster threads that exist to educate yourself. Also, watch many, many auctions from beginning to end, to get a feeling for current market value. When your expectations don't meet reality, look closer and you will learn something. That's how we all learned. In this case, you have not considered the impact of the dial re-lume on value, which is considerable. Most collectors will immediately walk away from a watch that has been tampered with in this way. A re-lumed dial would never be GOOD.

[Edit] When you are actually ready to buy, then you post a thread asking for advice about a specific watch. And you will need to post good photos. The photos in the OP are definitely not adequate to judge condition.

Killwolf · Dec 24, 2025

Dan S
To better understand how condition affects value, I suggest that you read online resources and follow along with the many Speedmaster threads that exist to educate yourself. Also, watch many, many auctions from beginning to end, to get a feeling for current market value. When your expectations don't meet reality, look closer and you will learn something. That's how we all learned. In this case, you have not considered the impact of the dial re-lume on value, which is considerable. Most collectors will immediately walk away from a watch that has been tampered with in this way. A re-lumed dial would never be GOOD.

[Edit] When you are actually ready to buy, then you post a thread asking for advice about a specific watch. And you will need to post good photos. The photos in the OP are definitely not adequate to judge condition.

I do read online resources as I do read the MWO. Unfortunately I have almost no time to watch live auctions. Also, I find that exchanging on the forum is actually also very instructive. See, your advice about a re-lume dial which cannot be considered as GOOD, you dont learn that on following auctions. You understand it in discussing with people having more knowledge than you.

By the way, how would a dial relumed with tritium be considered by collectors? Between a dial with almost no tritium vs. one relumed with tritium by very skilled watch-maker ? Obviously I guess it must be personnal opinion on the matter, but what would be the general concensus of collectors of there is one?

Killwolf · Dec 24, 2025

Ron_W
A relumed dial but they did not do the hands ?
Now there is a colour difference which is not attractive to me.

The movement picture show the pushers are sticking out a bit to far i think, maybe not placed deep enough in the caseband ? Hopefully one of OF watchmakers can say more about it.
Plus the relume and damaged bezel it is not a very attractive watch imo and even € 5500,- would be to much for me.

Yes , agree with you, even at 5000€ I wouldn’t go as I don’t find it attractive, but just wanted to get some expertise 😉

Dan S · Dec 24, 2025

Killwolf
I do read online resources as I do read the MWO. Unfortunately I have almost no time to watch live auctions. Also, I find that exchanging on the forum is actually also very instructive. See, your advice about a re-lume dial which cannot be considered as GOOD, you dont learn that on following auctions. You understand it in discussing with people having more knowledge than you.

By the way, how would a dial relumed with tritium be considered by collectors? Between a dial with almost no tritium vs. one relumed with tritium by very skilled watch-maker ? Obviously I guess it must be personnal opinion on the matter, but what would be the general concensus of collectors of there is one?

I didn't mean that you should watch live auctions, just that you should identify watches going to auction, study them to identify their condition, and follow up to learn the selling price. Keep notes in a spreadsheet and study the watches again to understand why they sold for the prices that they did. By the time you have studied a few dozen auctions, you will be surprised to see how much you have truly learned.

Every collector is different, but for a common reference like you are considering, I think that most collectors would just avoid both watches you are talking about: most of the dial lume missing/washed or re-lumed dial. Those are not collectible watches and there are plenty of good examples out there. The exception might be if I found a watch dirt-cheap at a garage sale with missing lume, I might choose to have it re-lumed to make it wearable and sell it to someone who doesn't care about collectibility. There are many people who just want a good-looking watch. But it would never be a collectible watch.

Killwolf · Dec 24, 2025

Thanks for the explanation; that’s much clearer to me 😉

As I said, the watch I posted isn’t to my taste at all, but I was quite surprised by the price the seller was asking. That said, I’m not naive - if someone is willing to pay that amount, there’s no harm in trying.

105.012 on LBC - Case study

Killwolf

Ron_W

Dan S

Killwolf

Killwolf

Dan S

Killwolf

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