I need advice. I got offered a 105.012, everything looks fine and period correct, from pushers to dial and everything else. Caseback is a correct 105.012-65. Included is the Extract from Archives, stating it was delivered in May '65. The movement serial though is quite low for a 65, 2208XXX.
From all I know and was able to research is that this is clearly in '64 territory, either 105.012s or 105.003s.
I don't want to be too picky, but I suspect - best case - the caseback was swapped somewhen. Has any of you ever come across this exception of the prooven serial range for a '65?

thanks in advance
Ralf

 

It's not uncommon to find a movement to be "a year" older than the rest of the watch. If Omega made more of them than they used in one year and used them in next years collection.

 

Could be, but I would expect that delta to be closer then from series end to new series. A 220xx though is quite far away from '65 and I haven't seen this big overlap in other series. I just have some difficulties to believe this is teh rare occasion. Did you ever come across this?

 

If the extract tied to the sn matches the caseback I'd call legit. Or is this an early extract where owners could supply information?

 

It's a late one and matches the reference, but remember, it doesn't mention the year, only the reference..catch 21.

The watch looks legit all over, not assembled conditionwise and is all fine, I so far tend to trust the seller too, but this serial thing..haven't seen such a gap in years and shouldn't it have happend at least twice? Jesus, I don't want to appear manic on this..

 

I don't think the OP is talking about a serial to year chart. It sounds like he's talking about the serial ranges on MWO or SP101 and these serial ranges would take this into account, so I don't think that explains it.

If the serial is genuinely out of the known range (my MWO only is in storage while we move, so I can't check the serial range for a -65), I'd proceed with caution. At best it's a swapped case back, but could be worse.

Obviously pictures would help tremendously.

Is the serial definitely 2208xxxx and not 2288xxxx? The 8's and 0's can look similar.

 

One of my 105.012-65 has 22,8 mill serial. The other one has 24,952, which happens to be the same as my (now sold) Ed White

 

Decribes exatly my worries, David.
It's clearly 22083xxx, can see it on the movement. This is ( referring to 101, have only access to 101 now, I'm working in Munich during the week, MWO is in Berlin) a good portion to early. If I had just one more proof that would make it likely I'd be more confident..but I don't yet and might not find it..if not here, where else.

 

228xxxxx and I would have bought it already. Is yours vacant ?

 

There's always the chance that you've found a genuine outlier, but given the sample size for MWO, it's extremely unlikely IMO.

If it's definitely 2208xxxx, something's obviously been changed along the way.

Narrow T dial?

 

If I were looking for an original watch, I would say this is not one I would consider.

It just does not fit that a -65 has a movement that low.

Given the ease, both mechanically and morally that some people switch movements between watches, I guess this is what has happened here.

 

Wide T dial and yes, I'd tend to trust MWO too unless someone jumps in here to say: seen that letigimate match a couple of times before.. before we were talking big money for Speedies.

 

So you've got a -65 back, with a serial that's almost certainly too early, yet it has the wide T dial, that appeared on later -65's.

If I wasn't out before, I'd be out now.

 

MWO says:
20,527,xxx - 22,825,xxx for -64
22,825,xxx - 24,527,xxx for -65

[Edit: further, 20,520,xxx - 20,522,xxx for -63. the OP one is way out for a -65 for sure]

I'd be cautious given the price of these. It could be hard to sell on down the road if ever that day were to come.

 

Assuming that roughly 1 to 2000 more Speedies went through your hands than through mine, this makes probably the closing line. ( poetry, careful!)

I'm still open for a solid proof of the opposite, but for now: thanks to all for confirming my concerns.

 

Sum of the parts..you're most likely very right. Seen this way the 64 movement fell into the 65 watch.

 

My vote is to avoid

 

Show us some pictures!

 

Pics are all watermarked and I don't want to publicly accuse in any way. If you want to know the seller, pm me please.
And yes, I won't buy it. As nice as it is, at around 9k $ I expect to have no uncertanties...even at 6 by the way.

 

It's back, after almost one year...this time for 11,5k and only revealing the first two digits, 22xxx
https://www.chrono24.de/omega/1965-speedmaster-professional-105012--id7590597.htm

..and on the infamous FB-Group as well..

In fact I have not seen any Speedy offered by this guy that hasn't either Issues or is not fully disclosed..or both..