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  1. Speedmasterfan88

    Speedmasterfan88 Feb 13, 2019

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    Hi OF!

    Last year I managed to win a Speedmaster at auction, it was an assemblage of parts, I mainly bought it for the 2915 caseback. I bought this watch on behalf of the dealer I work with.

    It was partially discussed here and here

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/105-003-project.86910/

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/spe...ion-in-frankfurt-10th-nov.85047/#post-1123177

    In the meantime we auctioned the parts off on ebay. All good, no complaints, apart from the Dial.

    On the original listing, the pictures we took were not perfect in the sense that the dial had minimal damage on the running seconds subdial, only visible from a certain angle in the right light conditions.
    These scuff marks, probably caused by uncarefull removal of the subdial hand, didn’t came through on our pictures taken in a lightbox.

    The buyer made us aware of this.

    I felt terrible as I should have double checked the dial before listing it, but I wrote the listing provided on the pictures we took at the store.
    We of course accepted his request to return the dial and refunded the buyer.


    Picture from the ebay listing:

    E95B792D-174B-40B8-BADE-4F8460C223D5.png


    Picture I took with my Phone prior to the listing:

    93B21233-965E-4BF8-A056-04CBF76D1ADA.png


    Pictures I took past listing with special care to try to highlight the scuff marks :
    CFBAB149-023A-4504-8403-049B845C05C1.jpeg B765FE3E-6EB9-4D14-A705-EFEA9A2B9622.jpeg

    The second (and first pre listing) picture shows how hard it is to capture the scuff marks on camera. It was taken at the same distance just with the light from a different angle, and even with the dial in hand were hard to spot if not hold at the right angle.
    It‘s a mistake I made, I should have triple/quadruple checked the dial before listing it, but I didn’t cought the scuff marks while handling the dial and writing the listing. Lesson learned.



    It should be mentioned that the Buyer agreed that, apart from the scuff marks, the dial was in very good condition, but he couldn’t get past the fact that the marks were there and he wants a 100% perfect dial for his project.
    No problem, as I said we agreed to take the dial back.
    And I had no doubt that we could sell the dial again at a later point.
    I also personally took new pictures and made sure that on those the scuff marks are visible. (See above)

    Before relisting it, a fellow member and collector on here @JimJupiter , to whom I offered the dial before initially listing it on ebay, contacted me and asked if the dial was still available, that he talked to some collectors, and that he would like to purchase the dial.
    I agreed, I was in contact with Nico before and was more than happy that we could agree on a price (albeit much less than the original price achieved on ebay, but in range for what I think this dial would be worth with the scuff marks.)

    Fast forward to today, I met up with nico for a f2f deal, and sold him the dial.
    After his retourn home he contacted me, and rose some questions about the dials applied metal Logo.
    This is where we stand now, I‘m in contact with Nico and already agreed that, should the Dial be in fact not original, I would accept a return.
    All is good between the two of us.

    The logo: highlighted here by @JimJupiter

    FDBE16CF-6C15-4445-ADB3-2CBE6D1EB654.jpeg DA13CA74-8CF8-4FD0-BE3E-EC415EF40B3C.jpeg

    (Second dial is the one in question)


    This thread, and the dial, are up for further debate and discussion.

    I would love if some of the senior members could chime in here.


    In the two threads where the Dial(watch) was previously discussed, the Dial didn’t raise any questions ... instead it was praised and received some likes. So I‘m a bit confused here.
    And in the end I want that Nico is happy, as I wish for all my customers to be after buying a part or a watch from me (the shop I work with).


    Is this a variation seen in Dials before?

    It the the logo on the dial plain wrong, and if yes, why?

    Is the Omega and Speedmaster Text all correct?




    I checked the dial under UV and it gave a very even glow, the lume fading after a couple of seconds.

    Today at the F2F I brought an UV light for Nico to check aswell.
    Although he said that UV is no longer a valid option to be sure that a dial is untouched or not.



    As the Dial is now with Nico, he will chime in and provide some macros of the Logo.


    Thanks,

    Max
     
    576BB8C2-FF77-4835-8B88-1715078F7421.jpeg
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  2. JimJupiter

    JimJupiter Feb 13, 2019

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    Thanks Max for the ( long :D ) explanation. To say it again, there is no bad blood between us, we just want to be sure this dial is legit.
    The first thing Max mentioned is the applied logo. I just wanted to see the new dial next to my Ed White and it popped into my eyes that the logo on the one from Max is somehow narrow at the bottom or skewed.

    858EE4B9-9BBA-4690-BAD6-E6376B90D878.jpeg

    The second interesting thing are the markers. First I thought the lume was a bit wobby around the step, but if you look on the makros, its seems the paint was run off to the sides at the step. Does someome of you have seen this before?

    D55F2FA9-8037-4999-81C3-294C55E40D08.jpeg B28BC950-3D87-4E57-8A0E-802535462FB4.jpeg

    Thanks to all of you and your expertise. Make us happy again! :)

    Nico
     
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  3. airansun

    airansun Feb 13, 2019

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    The legs of applied metal logo are definitely torqued inward, to the extent that the feet are no longer sitting flat.

    A185BAF4-1331-49C4-8A54-A981AD0D6358.jpeg

    The lume makes me think some watchmaker reapplied lume during a service decades ago — something about the texture of the second layer that suggests age to me.

    The lume would not bother me. But now that the AML issue has been pointed out, I’d see it every time I looked at the watch.

    I wonder how it got this way. Logo fell off and damaged before reapplied?
     
  4. JimJupiter

    JimJupiter Feb 13, 2019

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    Thanks for your thoughts. I had the same feeling that the watchmaker may used his tweezer wrong when applying the logo. But the rest of the dial doesnt give a hint why the logo should fallen apart. Even the back is still greyish.
     
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  5. OMEGuy

    OMEGuy Feb 13, 2019

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    Exactly. Do you have a picture of the dial back?
     
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  6. JimJupiter

    JimJupiter Feb 13, 2019

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  7. JimJupiter

    JimJupiter Feb 13, 2019

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    sure

    83276BB1-F13A-497B-BA65-4CEF416203C6.jpeg
     
  8. OMEGuy

    OMEGuy Feb 13, 2019

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    I'm convinced the lume is all correct and wasn't reapplied.
     
  9. OMEGuy

    OMEGuy Feb 13, 2019

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    The logo has two feet and is applied to the dial just pressing it into two matching holes. If the logo was bent as might be assumed by the pictures, it would be almost impossible to mount it. So I thought it might have been glued on (after having been bent or damaged, maybe?).

    That's why I asked - but I can't see it in the picture, sorry.

    Anyway, I agree with @airansun that this is no AML I would accept to be correct.
     
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  10. Speedmasterfan88

    Speedmasterfan88 Feb 13, 2019

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    Thanks for the insights so far.

    Maybe @Spacefruit @gemini4 saw something like this before? As you two have handled a boatload of speedmasters so far? Appreciate the help!


    If the lume is correct as @OMEGuy suggest and what was my initial gut feeling, I‘d wish to know why there was a need to reapply and possibly damage the AML.
    Point stands so far that this AML is definitely not the norm we see on AML dials.
    I compared it to some other dials online and it is blatantly obvious when compared side by side.

    I wish I would’ve done that earlier, but the over all state of the dial didn’t gave me any initial concerns.

    Cheers,

    Max
     
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  11. OMEGuy

    OMEGuy Feb 13, 2019

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    Apart from the bent logo the dial looks absolutely legit to me looking at the front.

    I'm not sure about the back side.
     
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  12. ndgal

    ndgal Feb 13, 2019

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    Dial looks 100% original to me, including the lume.
    The "Narrow foot" AML could be a manufacturing defect. I don't see any reason (or signs) that would suggest it was ever taken off and put back on again at some point.
     
  13. wsfarrell

    wsfarrell Feb 13, 2019

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    Agree. And I've not heard the faintest whisper of anyone faking an AML, ever.
     
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  14. bags1971

    bags1971 Feb 13, 2019

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    mine i had was the same the AML was slightly inwards
     
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  15. oddboy

    oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Feb 13, 2019

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    You guys don't follow constellations? Some crazy stars on some of them dials! :p
     
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  16. eugeneandresson

    eugeneandresson Feb 14, 2019

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    I’m with @ndgal on this one. Smudges aside, it’s a stunning dial. And I think the lume looks great.
     
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  17. Foo2rama

    Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Feb 14, 2019

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    I’ll ask this... is there a better 105 dial out there?

    Also note speedmaster101 appears to have a similar 105 dial... hard to tell exactly as the chrono hand is obscuring.
     
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  18. mac_omega

    mac_omega Feb 14, 2019

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    Why bother about some aberrations which can be seen only under a 10x loupe?

    For me this dial is perfect (considering its age)
     
  19. ewand

    ewand Feb 14, 2019

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    I've just noticed a not dissimilar (though maybe not quite as pronounced) AML on my -68 (crappy phone pic in artificial light):

    upload_2019-2-14_7-18-42.png

    from wrist shot in sunlight
    upload_2019-2-14_7-20-47.png

    Compared to -64:
    upload_2019-2-14_7-21-31.png

    Sniffing around online, it seems that Professional dials do show up with the same kind of appearance - slightly pinched looking, meaning the feet aren't quite level. I've not seen photos of a pre-Professional dial with the same behaviour, though - is it possible the original dial here was an early service item, maybe produced in the late 1960s?
     
    Edited Feb 14, 2019
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  20. JimJupiter

    JimJupiter Feb 14, 2019

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    I directly noticed it with my normal eyes, seeing one dial next to the other. The problem is, when you know it, you see it every time... and bothers you.

    But thanks to all, at least it seems that the logo haven’t fall off and applied again.

    Nico