Good morning all!

I'd like some guidance if possible.
I am very keen to strip a watch down and rebuild it, in the hope that I can one day start building and repairing my own watches.

1.) What are some good brands of watch makers tools I could look to buy?
I cannot seem to find anything in between cheap chinese tools and top of the range Bergeon. (Many of the mid range tools I have seen are basically the same cheap chinese tools, rebranded and in fancy packaging).
Looking at the prices, I assume that Burgeon are the Snap On of watch makers tools! Very high quality, yet very overpriced. The last thing I want are cheap tools, but surely there are other brands out there producing high quality tools at reasonable prices?

2.) Any suggestions on what watches to start rebuilding?
I am thinking old Russian watches or maybe chinese mid-range?

Thanks in advance!

 

Buy high quality vintage tools. Ebay is your friend. Do NOT buy chinese or indian junk. You'll just buy the tool twice and destroy your watch--or most likely, both. Your thoughts on Bergeon are generally accurate, though Bergeon tools are not always the nicest options out there (and some of their modern stuff is garbage). See also Horotec, AF Swiss, Petitpierre, Vigor, LG, Dumont, Seitz, amongst others.

Start on an inexpensive pocket watch before progressing to inexpensive manual winding watches with ebauche calibres. A russian or chinese watch will be very difficult to find service documents and replacement parts for.

Read up. There are lots of good books on the subject. Take a look at books by the likes of de Carle and Jendritzki. Also some of the old training manuals, like the Chicago School and the Bulova School are good resources.

Stay tuned here: http://omegaforums.net/threads/watchmaking-sub-forum.21260/
If the requests hit a critical mass, hopefully we'll get a space. If you're interested, register your voice.

If you have specific tool questions, feel free to ask... and search. Much has been covered previously.

 

Woo, drop him into the quality end of the pool. Petitepierre (quality advice though!)

Well I may as well recommend VOH for his screwdrivers then

 

A good place to start might be here.

http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/index.html

I'm sure that there are other educational sites so stay tuned.

 

Don't forget that you will have to think about equipment as well as tools - cleaning, timing, demagnetising etc.

You could also throw Horia into the names list for tools.

 

Well the Petitpierre rec came about after I bought two of their loupes in white. Absolutely gorgeous glass. Would not pay their prices for turned wooden handles on other tools.

I love my Horotec screwdriver set, but also love my 2x sets of K&D vintage screwdrivers. I grind/sharpen the blades to different thicknesses so each set has its place.

Get Dumont tweezers in brass--it won't scratch steel parts.

Only junk tools I use are my dust blower bulb from china and my sticky ball caseback opener from china.

 

FYI: If you're looking to get started on a new movement, the ETA 6497 is a popular training calibre.

 

You can pick up a couple of the Chinese 6487/8 clones, cheaper to break.

 

All good advice so far. Vintage tools can be great quality at small cost. Bergeon is most certainly not the best (at least not most modern Bergeon tools), and there are many other brands out there that make great tools.

Couple of things - if you are embarking on this process for the pure enjoyment of watchmaking, then have at it. However if you are doing this with the idea that it will be cheaper to service your own watches, then don't bother. Unless you have a lot of watches that will need servicing, the cost of proper tools and equipment will far exceed the cost of having those watches serviced.

Next, consider what brands and movements you have in the watches you own, and if parts will be available for these watches. I would hate to see you buy a lot of tools, and then find you can't get replacement parts for the watches you own. Also, some movements (co-axial for example) are somewhat beyond what most hobbyists would be able to service IMO. Consider that many watchmakers won't even touch them - they just send them on to Omega to be serviced.

And keep in mind servicing a watch is more than just the movement. So it's not just movement parts you will need, but crowns, case tube, pushers, correctors, crystals, gaskets, hands, dials, etc. Some of these also require specialized and expensive tools to install. You won't easily fit a crystal in a watch like a PO with a cheap, flimsy crystal press - you will pinch the gasket every time, and at $7 a pop, that can get expensive quickly.

Cheers, Al

 

You're guaranteed to break or lose something. Problem with going with the Chinese clones is that you can't order parts. If you launch a click spring across the room on your ETA, you waste some time searching on hands and knees, but then you just order a replacement from a traditional material house.

I'd avoid all of the Chinese/Russian movements for this reason.

If you're looking to save money, then buy some ebauche movements on eBay. The likes of ETA, A.Schild, etc, or even some of the old Bulova movements will all be cheap and relatively easy to source replacement parts.

 

The Time Zone Watch School looks to be pretty similar to the Nicholas Hacko site that @JimInOz posted earlier. I've done one of their courses and would recommend them. There's a fee, but it's pretty reasonable.

Here's their tool kit link.

Here's the AWCI CW21 exam suggested tool list.

The tool lists obviously list model numbers for current production tools. That's fine. But you'll get a much better price, much better quality tools and learn much more if you use their list as a starting point to search for equivalent vintage quality tools and only supplement with modern tools as absolutely necessary.

 

You can buy 2 or 3 Chinese clones for the price of one genuine ETA, so either way is actually okay in my books. And if it's something simple like a yoke spring (not sure how you would launch a click spring...if you do you need to tune your tweezers or practice how to hold things), the ETA one will fit the Chinese movement...

And yes the click spring from an ETA will work also if you somehow manage to loose it.

The TZ school is useful to help you determine if you are cut out for this sort of work - not everyone is. Some things they teach are outright wrong, and others just bizarre, but again it will tell you if you have the patience or general aptitude for this work. I would do something like that first before investing in a lot of tools, just to make sure you can do the work required and still be sane after you are done.

Cheers, Al

 

I'm a serious hack BUT I'm now pretty good with a few different movements. I say start with baby steps. Buy a video on watch repair and see if you still want to move forward. $20. Then buy the basics for simple repairs. Simple mechanics and strength of materials knowledge is important. The most common movement I see out there in the vintage watch arena is the AS1287. Seems like it comes in just about every generic misc swiss watch from the 60's through 70's. I have hundreds of them and have mailed them to friends before wanting to try their hand at repair. I'm assuming you are wanting to repair for your needs only (ie as a hobby to keep you out of the bars like me). If you want to get into the business then........listen to Al.
My problem with the Russian watches is access to parts. Problem with the Chinese is that they have poor construction. Stick with vintage swiss. Abundant, well made and cheap.

 

I've been told this happens to everyone with older Glashutte's Spezmatics lulzzzz

 

What about the first time you take apart a mainspring? BAAAAAAZIIIINNNNGGG right past the ear.

 

I'm just about to start working on the tz watch school material and would love to know what to watch out for in terms of the incorrect and bizarre. What are the major things they got wrong?

 

Naah. They have a tendency to attempt to wrap themselves around your eyeball.

 

I'll say I've only seen levels 1 and 2, and this was quite some time ago. Other than some part names being wrong, level 1 is basically fine. Level 1 really isn't watchmaking at all, just disassembling and reassembling a movement to some degree. No cleaning, lubrication, etc. is included, so it's pretty hard to mess that up significantly. Again this is a good thing to do in order to give you a feel for just manipulating parts using tweezers. Mind you from what I remember they tell you nothing about how tools are properly prepared.

Level 2 has more significant issues IMO. It's been a long time since I saw a copy of it, but from memory they tell you to hand wind the mainspring back in the barrel (a complete no-no), the way they tell you to lubricate the mainspring is all wrong (way too much oil), and if I recall they tell you to oil the pallet jewels outside the watch before installing the pallet fork...which is, shall we say, a unique approach.

There is a level 3 apparently, but I have never seen it.

The TZ watch school courses were not created by a watchmaker, but a hobbyist. I understand they have a watchmaker that is supposed to help you if you have questions, but my impression is that one person who took the course has basically been running it (or had been) for a few years. And this person created the level 3.

Taking this course will certainly not turn you into a watchmaker, so as long as you go into it understanding it's limitations, it could be worthwhile to do. Again the first level would be good just as a test of the very basic skills needed to handle parts.

Cheers, Al

 

Thanks for the answers, Al! What do you recommend for people who want to learn at home? A good book perhaps?

 

What exactly is your goal?