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  1. ELV web Mar 2, 2014

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    Gold Dial, I'm not even sure it is redial or not because of the date numbers (9 and 6 are fully closed). Any opinions more than welcomed (I hope my luck is not too bad)? Anyhow, thanks once again for all the great sharing we got here. I also just took a plunge on another triple date with moonphase, will put a post up once it arrives :)

    Cheers,
    Eric
     
    UG Tricompax Wrist shot.jpg UG Tricompax 1.jpg UG Tricompax 2.jpg UG Tricompax 3.jpg
  2. JohnSteed Mar 2, 2014

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    brave soul, always encouraged ;)

    more experience UG guys will soon chime in
     
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  3. ELV web Mar 2, 2014

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    Case looks correct, Ref. no. 22258, on Sala page 361 seems to show the same....., But it is the dial that got me a bit worried. Looks too good for the age (and Freccero, although a legitimate retailer, doesn't seem to appear anywhere on Sala's).
     
  4. JohnSteed Mar 2, 2014

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    Sala a good reference.

    Some patination on the dial could likely be expected. However, seems generally any fading/patination should match throughout, including for example the moon-phase?
     
  5. ELV web Mar 3, 2014

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    Thanks John, the moonphase also looks too pale like you said....
     
  6. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 3, 2014

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    I haven't seen a Freccero dial before, but I have no reason to doubt that this one is original. I do have some doubt that this dial started in this case. I should preface this my saying I have not made a careful study of the topic, but it is my impression that serial numbers on the movement are an early feature. Does the case number also suggest an early date of production? And as you note, the moonphase disc is in much worse shape than the dial.

    On the other hand, UG had a habit of assembling cases and dials in all sorts of combinations.
     
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  7. woodwkr2 Mar 3, 2014

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    The dial looks original to me, though I too question whether it started in that case. The gold/champagne/salmon colored dials were typically paired with solid gold (yellow or rose) cases. That's not to say that a steel combo is impossible, but given the extreme fading on the moonphase disc, I suspect that the dial is a transplant.

    The place where you acquired it has a good reputation, and would no doubt take it back if your doubts overwhelm your enjoyment.

    I think it's a beautiful find and would wear it and enjoy it.
     
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  8. ELV web Mar 3, 2014

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    Thanks guys, the serial no. is 1156400. It could very likely be a NOS transplant or something along that line. I will try to study more too about this dial variant vs. the case. Any insights from here will be much appreciated.
     
  9. woodwkr2 Mar 3, 2014

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    Does the hour recorder (sub dial at 6 o'clock) reset to zero? If it does not, I would return it and ask that the watchmaker re-set the hands.
     
  10. ELV web Mar 3, 2014

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    It does, all functions are working fine actually. The only problem I have is the dial looks too pristine. will try to find out about UG sold at freccero, I do have some chance to go to uruguay on work, and will dtop by the shops when there. Will keep you posted. Also receiving another triple calendar tomorrow, will post some shots for advise :)
     
  11. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Mar 3, 2014

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    Good plan. They are a pain to set every time you put them on, so you better get one for every day of the month. And day of the week. And month of the year. And day of the moonphase.:D
     
  12. ELV web Mar 3, 2014

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    I also think so, definitely will keep it even if the dial is a replant :)
     
  13. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Mar 3, 2014

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    Freccero sold a ton of UG's in 1950's.
     
  14. ELV web Mar 4, 2014

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    That is great, hope I can find more freccero dial variation when I am in South America :)
     
  15. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Mar 6, 2014

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    Here's some good news? This is a high def. snapshot of the die stamp they used on factory dials. Font looks identical to my untrained eye. I think Freccero just placed their logo where they felt like it? seems that way...

    BTW - a little over polished but (((drool))) Patek.
     
    freccero font.jpg
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  16. woodwkr2 Mar 6, 2014

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    At least in the modern era, the original manufacturer, here Patek, is the party responsible for inking the retailer name. There's a nice video on Hodinkee where they stamp one of the Tiffany dials. It's not done willy nilly.

    It makes sense that this would hold for vintage pieces too, as I don't know of many retailers that want to buy the pad printing machines and invest in the production process just to stamp their name--nor of too many manufacturers that would give up control of their most visible face to the consumer. The dials were produced for the manufacturer to their specs, which were then cased up in Switzerland (if the casing did not occur in the country of sale to avoid usurious taxation) and sent to the retailer/authorized importer in batches.

    To your point, it wouldn't surprise me if Patek and Universal dials were both made by the same dial maker. Most manufacturers still outsource many of the parts that comprise their "in house" movements. Dials, hairsprings, mainsprings, crystals, etc. Even George Daniels who was renowned for making every part by hand took this approach.
     
  17. woodwkr2 Mar 6, 2014

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    Super interesting. I found this fantastic article on the Rolex Passion Report here. (Really worth a read!) Apparently they were issued with Rolex-authorized imprints of Serpico y Laino.

    So it sounds like the thinking in the vintage Rolex community is that Serpico y Laino physically stamped the dials themselves--hence the different color and font? As opposed to Serpico y Laino specifying their font and color and having the original dial manufacturer print them?
     
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  18. woodwkr2 Mar 6, 2014

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    Here's the link to the Hodinkee article on the stamping of the "Tiffany" dial. Done, notably, at the Patek service center in NYC, by Patek technicians.

    There's a video around somewhere too.

    Does Rolex still produce (or authorize) any co-branded dials these days?
     
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  19. ELV web Mar 6, 2014

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    You mean something like this.....
     
    image.jpg
  20. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Mar 6, 2014

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