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  1. rfe3 Jul 16, 2014

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    Hi everyone,
    I've been lurking around for awhile just soaking in all the amazing Omega knowledge here and now I have a question or better yet, need an expert opinion. I recently purchaced an obvious Pie Pan Redial (Black of course) in an ST168.025 Case with the correct Cal. 564 Movement (Ser.# 330*****) Seems correct according to the Omega Vintage Site. The Dial was sooo badly done I was embarrassed to call the guy on it...Swore it was Original....Anyway, I got it for a good price and tried to clean the Black paint off with lots of warm Soapy water but it didn't work. I ended up having to soak it in Acetone to remove it...What a shame...Now I have a "Blank Slate" so to speak. I must do a restoration so my Question is: What dial color is correct for this Year/Model? The Logo, Omega Symbol, Hour markers, Star and Date Window are perfect. I'm talking with David Navaro at Danafi in Spain about the restoration. He is suggesting the Black...I'm really unsure about the Color. If I go with a Black Dial it will come under a lot more scrutiny I'm sure because "everybody " fakes a Black Pie Pan. Since I am forced to do a redial, then I would like it to be less obvious...Opinions anyone?

    Thanks for your consideration,
    Rick
     
  2. Stewart H Honorary NJ Resident Jul 16, 2014

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    As long as you are honest when/if you come to sell it then go with black, if that's what you like. If you intend to try and pass it off as the original dial finish, then you are committing a criminal act in most civilised countries. Ignorance is one thing but deception is another thing altogether.
     
  3. rfe3 Jul 16, 2014

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    Nooo....not trying to decieve anyone....This is for my Personal Collection. I'm mainly unsure if the Black Dial came on a 1971 Watch, and if so is the Black Dial with or without the Crosshair the correct one. I don't really know alot about Pie Pan Conies, Seamasters are my thing...There are so many different Black Dial versions on the internet (lots of incorrect redials) that I'm unsure which style to have done, hence my need for an expert opinion. Since I'm paying a Preimum for the redial I want it as authentic as possible.
     
  4. sohail Jul 16, 2014

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    This is from omega data base , looks like steel color background image.jpg
     
  5. ulackfocus Jul 16, 2014

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    There probably were black dialed versions of this watch. I've seen silver mostly, and even a few two tone with interesting colors in the center that have a straight up & down brushing finish.
     
  6. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 16, 2014

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    I have one of these watches with a fully original dial. Here is a decent close up:

    [​IMG]

    There was a second, two tone version pictured above. These are generally gold and black. They are also very rare.

    One thing does trouble me. Most of the movements that I've seen in these have serial numbers in the 27 to 28 million range. I've not seen one in the 33 million (1971) range. Not sure what to make of this, but my guess is that at least some of the parts on this movement may not be original.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
  7. kamak Jul 16, 2014

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    How about ordering "Extract of the Archives" from Omega? http://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/heritage/extract-of-the-archives/order-form

    If you are lucky you would get the info about the exact colour of the dial of your own watch. Unfortunately this is a bit of a gamble since quite often it seems there is only "Not specified" in the dial field. However, even if there would be no info about the dial, you would at least get more info about the watch and its history.
     
  8. rfe3 Jul 17, 2014

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    Thanks for the replies guys. gatorcpa: Do you have a photo of the 2 tone Black and Gold? That sounds really awesome. Is the Black in the center and Gold on the Pan sides?The picture of your 025 is the one I sent to David at Danafi as an example of a White Dial. From the hundreds of photos on Google this one stood out to me as the most original...I'm concerned about the movement date now....When I checked on the Omega Vintage Site I saw the Case listed as 1967 and knew that the Pie pans were produced untill 71-72 so I thought It was probably ok. I didn't pay too much for the watch so if it turns out to be a total Franken then it won't be the end of the world and it will still be worth it to me to spend the €200+ for a decent Dial refinish.
     
  9. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 17, 2014

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    Here's a black and gold version:

    [​IMG]

    I found another version in grey and white, that I think is original as well:

    Omega_Constellation-19c.jpg

    A lot more pictures may be found on this old eBay listing:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-1960-039-s-OMEGA-Automatic-watch-Constellation-Chronometer-Pie-Pan-168-025-/360755590470Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

    Note that the markers are totally different than on my example above. This dial also has the vertical brushing, which is news to me.

    Those that are interested should probably save the images in the old listing to your computers before eBay or the seller takes them down. One of the better examples of this style that I've seen.

    There's another, even rarer version of the dial for this reference:

    [​IMG]
    http://omega.watchprosite.com/?show=forumpostf&fi=677&pi=6138113&ti=896923&s=0

    Also has the brushed finish.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
    TNTwatch, rfe3 and Dr No like this.
  10. rfe3 Jul 18, 2014

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    Wow, Thanks for the photos....real Eye Candy... It'll be a tough descision to choose which one. Do you think that with a 71 serial# that the movement and or Parts were replaced? My dilemma now is whether to make myself a really nice Frankenconie or try to find another 564 movement in the 27 - 28 mio. serial # range so its more original (or less Franken).
     
  11. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 18, 2014

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    I don't think it's a tough decision at all. The color and pattern should be based on the markers. Since you have not told us which dial markers you have, we can't tell what color the dial should be.

    With respect to the movement, I'd leave well enough alone at this point. You will probably be better off with the 1971 movement in good working order than with a replacement of the right vintage that will cost your a lot more and won't be any more functional.

    Good luck with the restoration. Let's see the final results when you are ready.
    gatorcpa
     
  12. rfe3 Jul 19, 2014

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    Here's a Picture of the "Raw Dial" the Hour Markers are Gold.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 19, 2014

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    I believe that's a dial for a regular pie-pan reference, 168.005 or similar. I'm quite surprised that it would fit in the case for a 168.025, which I thought was slightly smaller. It should fit the movement, since the cal. 564 was used in both watches.

    Looks like you have a watch that was cobbled together from at least three different watches (case, dial and movement). I don't know what you paid for it, but it might be best to chalk this one up to a lesson learned (we've all had 'em) and not dump a lot of money into it. Maybe better to save that cash for a fully original Constellation pie-pan.

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news like this.
    gatorcpa
     
  14. rfe3 Jul 20, 2014

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    Ah-Ha...The Movement was out of the Case but with the Crystal and all of the bits, so I never saw it all together....I only Paid €200 for the Watch so It's not a great loss....A working 564 Movement costs almost that on Fleabay...I found the watch a Flea Market here in Austria, the guy said he bought it at another Flea Market in the Czech Republic. As I said someone had tried to make a Black Dial Pie Pan out of it. I guess they were trying to make a Franken but never got it fit together and sold it off as parts. I will probably have it restored anyway and look for a 168.005 Case for it. I did get another Conie Dial as part of the Deal, maybe you can identify it for me also. It got Bead Blasted by a overly helpful workmate of mine. There were pieces of the Date wheel stuck to the inside of the Dial and I was trying to pick them off with little sucess and he suggested that he could knock it right off with the fine Bead Blaster...He thought he would be nice and clean the Black paint off the front for me as well....Needless to say he is not a "Watch Guy".... Daniel at Danafi said he could still save it, He'd seen worse. [​IMG]
     
  15. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jul 20, 2014

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    That looks like it could be the correct dial for the Ref. 168.025. Your picture is out of focus, so I can't tell if it has the pie-pan facets or not.
    gatorcpa
     
  16. rfe3 Jul 21, 2014

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    It doesn't have the facets.