Hello everyone,

my name is Bernd, I live in the Black Forest in Germany. I recently purchased the
watch you can see in the pictures at the end of my posting.

When I saw this watch I immedeately had to buy it, it looks great. Now I try to find any
information about this wristwatch. Personally I don't doubt the authenticity of the dial, to
me it looks all original. Being on the search I found this forum.

Here a the few facts I can provide:

- UG Reference 12494
- case number 1445902 (so it should be manufactured around the year 1950)
- 18k pink gold
- additional Cartier logo print on the dial
- Cal. 285

It would be great if you know anything. For example is this dial original? Is this a
rare model? I really couldn't find a second one like this neither on the internet nor
in my literature. How many were produced? Where might it have been sold?

Thanks a lot in advance!!!

Bernd

 

No thoughts on this one?

In the meantime Cartier told me they need the watch for verification in Geneva. It would
cost at least 1000 Euro and take several months. They can't say anything about the watch
and pictures are not sufficiant.

I don't have to mention, that I will not spend this money, do I?

 

From the pictures It looks pretty legit. Cartier in the early days did use other companies to produce their watches. I would have to see a close up, probably authentic. Value would be maybe a little higher, but still mainly a Universal Geneve compax value.

 

I've never seen a Cartier signed Universal. Doesn't mean it wasn't possible, but I am skeptical. The question for me is whether the Cartier signature was a recent addition to an original dial, particularly with the premium that the genuine Hermes co-signed pieces bring.

 

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry for the delay. Here are some better pictures. At "6 o'clock" the dial is also "SWISS" signed,
but the shape of the crystal hides this detail more or less.







In this picture I tried to show you, that the way the UG and the C print reflect the light seem
absolutely identic. At last to the eye of a viewer. I know, it's hard to identify on this picture.

 

The Cartier name seems to be done by a shaky hand, especially the last two letters. Not what I would expect from a name of that stature.

 

Well, it's the late 1940s and to the naked eye this print looks excellent. I would think,
if the dial is genuine, they took some dials and gave them an additional print. I don't
know how much effort they might have spent for a few dials. I guess that a "Cliché"
today is made with higher quality very easy (laser engraving, wafer, and so on). As
today we find the "30-cm-rule" all the way through the watch industry, meaning that
anything the naked eye can't see from a 30cm distance is fine. This probably wasn't
different at all at the time this watch was made.

 

Does it cost a thousand bucks for Cartier to confirm whether or not they contracted UG to do any work for them at all during that time period? I would think if they have anyone working in anything resembling a records dept., that this would be readily available information. I agree about the gambling but is it even worth the thousand dollar cover charge?

 

My watchmaker is an old dude from Switzerland. He was brought to the US many years ago by Universal Geneve, and he stayed. He told me that Universal was making watches for Cartier at the time. He is traveling right now, but when he returns, I'll ask him for more detail.

 

If you get to talk to him, and if he says that Universal made watches for Cartier, be sure to ask him where those Cartier co-signed watches were sold. Was there a Cartier location in the US at that time, or would any Cartier pieces have been retailed at the flagship store on Avenue des Champs-Élysées?

 

This is great! Looking for news from your watchmaker

 

It's going to be about a month. But I'll see what he knows.

 

All of a sudden these things are coming out of the wood work. (NOT a recommendation to buy).



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The inkling on this one just too obvious (in a negative way)

 

I also think, the printing on the three-hands "Cartier" looks strange.
Personally I bought my chronograph from a friend, he owned it for many years.
Himself he only saw one watch like this, years ago on chrono24.com for
an absolutley unrealistic price. But the price is not from interest

 

Bernd, are there any unusual markings on the back of your watch? Any unusual numbers?

 

No, it looks quite ususal:

 

Take a loupe to the back and sides of the lugs.

As Wayne suggested in the parallel posting about a Cartier/UG, Cartier seemed to have a knack for adding a serial number to everything they sold, even down to the tiniest necklace clasp. With such a number, it would increase your likelihood of finding a document with Cartier.