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  1. MDL Sep 9, 2014

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    Hi all.

    This is my first post and my first purchase.

    I have just found a broker who can get me a Seamaster Aqua Terra GMT Chronograph (231.10.43.52.03.001) for quite a significant discount.

    I have been informed it is brand new and being ordered from the factory by one of their suppliers who is an Authorised Dealer, I am being told & complete with full international warranty.

    All the cards will be stamped and signed by the AD.

    Sounds too good to be true I know.

    My question is 2 fold.

    What can go wrong and has anybody else used Churchill & Wolff in the UK?

    Any information will be much appreciated.

    Thanks all
     
  2. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 9, 2014

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    Sounds like you've found a grey market dealer, there are many around, I don't know that particular one personally.
     
  3. bish789 Sep 9, 2014

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    They are in Covent Garden, but don't let a prestigious address sway you. They openly admit they are a brokerage, so will be buying from somebody else, possibly an AD, but don't know from which country. They are advertising seamasters at more than £600 cheaper than an official UK AD. Caveat Emptor rules here I think.
     
  4. cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 9, 2014

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    This happens quite a bit in the US and it can be a good way to get an authorized dealer purchase a nice discount. If this happens do not mention the name of the dealer on the warranty cards, it brings them no good.

    <Edit: I should say that I am not talking about internet purchases here>
     
  5. SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 9, 2014

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  6. ulackfocus Sep 9, 2014

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    Be wary of anything that's too good to be true because...... well, it usually is too good to be true. The following is not my speculation, it's 100% fact: Watches sold by grey market dealers DO NOT come with the manufacturer's warranty - the grey market dealer offers their own, and who knows how qualified their 'watchmaker' is. Often the serial numbers are drilled out or scratched off so the watch can't be traced back to the AD that off loaded it (since manufacturers HATE the grey market and would penalize the AD that did this). Sometimes the watch is a return from a dissatisfied customer that's has been reconditioned. Or maybe it hasn't: http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/thread68146.html

    In short, a seller will tell you anything he thinks you want to hear to get your money. Trying to save a few bucks often leads to headaches. Find an AD that will work with you on price, maybe even getting down near to, or at, grey market pricing.
     
  7. Tiny Iota Could potentially be the Official OF Stalker ™ Sep 9, 2014

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    The Iconic Watches website says it is the full manufacturer's warranty and explicitly says the watch can be taken to an AD to claim under it. That seems pretty brazen to be an outright, umm, inexactitude.

    So what would you do if you had the following options?

    1) Buy From an AD on the high street at regular market price
    2) Buy from an AD (Mappin & Webb) at Heathrow and save 17% duty free
    3) Buy from Iconic Watches and save 22% (in actual terms, that's only about 200 quid cheaper than the Heathrow option)

    I'm sure someone will say "Kringkily", but please just humour me :thumbsup:

    Cheers
     
  8. MikiJ Likes songs about Purple spices Sep 9, 2014

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    Ok, I said it: "Kringkily" ;-)
     
  9. repoman Sep 9, 2014

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    You should just contact Kring.....oh nevermind, you guys know the drill.
     
  10. bish789 Sep 9, 2014

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    Love the Churchillism…Inexactitude, terminal by any means?
     
  11. SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 9, 2014

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    Buying from George/Kingkrily from the UK presents the additional issue of import duties of c.20%, so you have to decide how you feel about that. I'm not condoning tax evasion, but some people want to do it & I'm sure it can be done. So you have to decide if you want to go down that route. I say this having bought from George and being a loyal advocate of his ability to source and sell watches at a reasonable price.

    If you go grey market you have to reserach the seller carefully.

    As for Iconic Watches, when I bought from them I was able to speak to the owner of the business and they delivered an "unworn" classified watch with dealer stamped warranty card dated a few days prior to its delivery to me. They had sourced it from an Italian AD. You need to check their current terms for yourself as I have no idea if anything has changed since I dealt with them.

    Duty free may also be an option & I know someone who bought a watch in the airport in Switzerland (no VAT) and didn't declare it for import duty on his return to the UK.

    You pay your money & you take your choice...
     
  12. speedbird Sep 9, 2014

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    Your mileage may vary. I have a grey dealer who sells things at a cost so low it makes it just too good to pass up. You don't get the books and boxes, just the omega plastic shipping box and pictogram/warranty cards. The warranty isn't stamped so it's useless. No fancy packaging but the serials are intact.


    I've had excellent experience but the guys are giving you good advice. Buy the seller FIRST
     
  13. ulackfocus Sep 9, 2014

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    I'll take door #2 Monty!
     
  14. RupertThomas Feb 5, 2015

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    Hi All,

    Just read through this thread.

    I too was looking at discount brokers, head a lot of good/bad things about then.

    I read loads of reviews on trust pilot about Churchill&Wolff, all of the reviews were excellent. I contacted them, got a reply from their Sales director pretty much immediately.

    I was looking for a JLC Reverso, which they sourced within 10 days at a brilliant price.
    The watch was stamped by an EU dealer, but frankly that doesn't seem to matter. The Warranty was stamped 2 days before I received the watch, so it was brand new from purchase. All of the seals and tags, exactly as if I had bought it from a shop.

    The AD was registered on JLC's site, I checked up and its all top notch and legit.

    So chuffed with the watch, I have a few Omegas and low level luxury watches, but this is by first big purchase. The guys at C&W kept me updated during the whole process, they were never more than a phone call away. Really good service.

    Apprehension is understandable, but I recommend Churchill and Wolff. Maybe read some reviews? Has anyone done a full review of them on this forum?
     
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  15. Tiny Iota Could potentially be the Official OF Stalker ™ Feb 5, 2015

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    Did you negotiate further with C&W or did you pay the advertised price, which I know is already a lot lower than MSRP?
     
  16. RupertThomas Feb 5, 2015

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    They were open to negotiation, they only moved by about 3%, but still was a significant saving.

    They were also happy to meet comparable offers.

    The only thing that worries me was the delivery time, but often that is the trade off when buying through a parallel seller. Much cheaper price, slightly longer wait.
     
  17. RupertThomas Feb 18, 2015

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    Just read this comment,

    Admittedly, there do seem to be a lot of cowboys on the market, however, if you do your research properly, most parallel market dealers are perfectly legitimate. Montredo, SWD, C&W, they all have reputable business practices from what I can work out. I was over the moon with the service I received, and I shopped about with their competitors before hand. Nothing untoward, so long as you don't get hooked in by a shark!
     
  18. Northernman Lemaniac Feb 18, 2015

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    Some seek safety and comfort, some rides bravely out in the dark of night.....
    To me it always boils down to what I am prepared to loose. If I have to sell parts of my own body to settle the accounts I would be cautious in like avoid it at all costs.
    If it merely limits my next months spending on wine and beer I am not too bothered. This is why my purchases usually ends up in this category, and what do you know: Cheap wine and beer is not all bad as long as it does not persist!
     
  19. Tiny Iota Could potentially be the Official OF Stalker ™ Feb 19, 2015

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    Of course, but then you move on to the bourbon! :coffee: <--not coffee
     
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