Hey gang,

I understand that boxes and papers are important from a collector's point of view, and even desirable for an enthusiast.

At what point do they become essential (or less essential)?

I'm sure there are many rare and attractive vintage pieces that would stand on their own merits even without the 'extras'. And for someone just looking for a watch to wear, they may not be all that important..

But aside from exceptionally rare pieces, and what point do the boxes and papers become a deal breaker?

For example, say a nice LE Speedmaster from a lower production run (2000, 2500 or so) in good condition. Is that worth anything without box and papers? What would be the (relative) price difference between two identical pieces if the boxes and papers would be the only difference?

Thanks!

J

 

I'm sure the price difference would depend on the watch itself - meaning, B&Ps from a vintage, highly collectable, and rare Speedmaster would command a higher price than B&Ps from watch with lesser collectability traits. I have seen this question answered before but can't remember the actual watch in question, in that case the B&Ps were valued at +/- $150-200.

 

If the watch is for you...then boxes and papers will both be left somewhere in a dark place for the rest of your life. If you're planning on re-selling then they do bring some value and make the sale easier...if you're passing it along to your children/estate, then it's good to have a record for future reference. If you're insuring your property they are important, but can be replaced by an authenticity certification (Aaron faber in NYC)

If you're alone in an island with not enough timber to start a fire...critical!!

 

Thanks guys.

So, emotional attachment to the full set aside, B&P might add/subtract around 5-10% (say $200 on a $2500 watch)?

And a good condition and desirable watch would be sellable with or without them?

Not looking for a hard fast rule, more a general principle. I'm also not *planning to sell the stuff I buy, but circumstances change and necessities arise and I'm just curious if I'd be short changing myself by picking up something without B&P should I find myself in such a circumstance.

 

I don't know what value % it will lose, specially if you can certify it's authenticity (which costs from 60 to 100 bucks and you get a printed certificate) i suppose it would depend on the intent of the purchaser (collector, flipper etc) and on the sellers uncanny ability to negotiate down with you based on no papers.

Yes, again IMO a good desirable watch will sell with or without them (as long as a reputable auction house, intermediary or, again, certification can prove authenticity, or as long as you give an insurance like money back guarantee etc)

If it's the real deal it's the real deal. A good buyer will see that papers or not. If it is a mid level not so rare watch then anything will be reason to negotiate...it's a rainy day, I have to get dressed to receive the fed-ex guy, I really wanted it to be gold....etc etc. Don't over think it, just make sure you're not buying a fake, enjoy it, and then be honest with your expectation at selling time.

 

Well, it depends on the case. As already mentioned, the box and papers are valuable for a resale or for collectors who needs to have all the info related to the watch.

But, there is one more thing that it matters a lot, in my opinion. Papers, means genuine and nevertheless, it means the watch is not stolen. I do not like to have or buy something that has been stolen.
Well, missing papers doesn't mean for sure it has been stolen as having the papers doesn't mean for sure it has not been stolen. But, the probability that someone stole the watch with box and papers is not likely.

 

I wondered this too.

I bought my Gemini IV without box and papers and since I plan to pass this one on I was not worried about it, but heck I may decide to buy a 50th LE (did I read a post about a blue dial meteorite).

In any case, I am curious to know what a price with and without box would be in my case.

 

@Taddyangle you know that's how rumors start (re: blue meteorite dial)!

I only have one data point with and without box/papers. When I bought my Speedyorite, I had been looking for around 6 months, pretty much knew what a fair price would be for a mint condition with box/papers, when I found a mint condition piece, it did not have the box and papers. I used that in my negotiations, and I eventually bought the watch for 15% below what I was willing to pay for a complete kit. I bought the box later on the cheap thanks to @DLT222 so it worked out really well. It's important to note the box in this case is a big presentation box, so it made a bigger difference. YMMV. I would definitely buy again without box/papers given the right circumstances, and like has been said already, my closet is already full of omega boxes that really don't bring me any pleasure day to day.

 

So generally preferred, but not an absolute necessity - even for good resale value.

So far, only one watch I've bought came with box and papers. It was a nice experience I must say, but doesn't make the watch any nicer when I wear it.

 

It means a lot on certain pieces like a snoopy without box and papers that one is a tough sell. Some pieces carry a lot more emphasis on the set.

 

To me I guess it all depends on the deal. If it's a newer watch, I want the box and papers. It it's vintage then it's not a big deal. Also, if I'm purchasing from an individual I want the box and paper, a trusted seller I would be more forgiving.

 

I don't think I'd buy a pre-owned high end (i.e.: over $10K) watch without the box and papers. I guess it depends on what you're conmfortable with and how much you're willing to pay or not pay.

 

Really depends on how long you plan on owning this watch. Do you need a box and a manual? What year it is and the real question is are you plan on selling it off in a few years. My experience is that your watch will demand more money and sell quicker with all its original packing.

 

Ok, we are not wearing the box and paper but they are nice to have for a better sell price.

Sometimes the box is quite nice to look at and it has a value by its own.

What about the paper? Why a paper is valuable?

 

+1. For modern watches, I'm generally keen on B&P when buying from private sellers, as it provides me with a little more assurance of authenticity. Plus I'm always curious to know where the watches were bought from. On 2 occasions, I bought pre-owned from sellers outside of Singapore, only to find that the watches were originally bought in Singapore.

 

Even with box and papers most store watches away from these ie: safe, bank.

Papers would be good
Box not that fussed unless LE

Watch im really after, I would buy without box ,papers and bracelet

 

Very often the box insert is just as important as the box. For a vintage piece, completeness is everything, since it is so unusual.

 

With some watches, the box, papers, and even small items that come with the watch can be quite valuable. I bought a Red Sub earlier this year and here is a thread on it - look at the comments made about the value of the booklet and hang tag by one poster...

http://omegaforums.net/threads/anyone-here-well-versed-in-red-subs.15127/

Not that I am about to sell those off, but they certainly have value. I don't know if what the poster said was true, but I can assure you I was surprised that a booklet that was in every watch box Rolex sold at the time could be worth $600.

Cheers, Al

 

@Archer, 600 usd is ... let's say, amazing for a booklet. I really do not understand why and it is hard to believe this.