Well said TJ. I hope to see more of your entertaining posts, but I have a premonition...............................
It reminds me of that Playstation warrior a couple of months ago who went on to threaten that he was not a nice person and.....
Gentlemen of the forum, I introduced myself as a newbie and a newcomer. I admitted that I knew very little about watches, only that I appreciate them, and that I have since before it became cool to do so. My disagreement with UB is not his assertion that it is a fake, but rather his suggestion that I "...can probably throw it away now." Honestly, is that the right attitude or culture that should be cultivated? Does this forum serve only to humiliate and deprecate those with less knowledge or does it serve to educate and enlighten? Further, even if it is a "redial" or a "frankenwatch" does that mean it is worthless and should be discarded? Does it somehow lessen the value of the rest of the watches in the world? As someone who has been an active member of numerous classic car and motorcycle forums I can say that the topic of "originality" and "authenticity" is one which is discussed on a nearly daily basis. Vintage cars and motorcycles rarely spend decades on this planet without modifications, from mild to severe, and those modifications definitely lessen their collector value. To their owner, however, as long as they make them happy, their value is not diminished one dollar, unless they paid "original price" for an unoriginal example. There was polite way for UB to share his opinion regarding my watch, but telling me that it is "worthless" and that it can be "thrown away" is not one of them. As it turns out, the watch on the Jackmond site may indeed be my watch. I didn't buy it from them, but their location is in the same part of California. If it is indeed the same watch, then I was wrong asserting that it is not. Further, this site http://www.chronomaddox.com/omega_serial_numbers.html shows that the serial number is in line with a watch from the late 50s, as asserted by the Jackmond listing. By the way, I replaced the band when I bought the watch. The final question is of course, the face. I appreciate Tire-comedon's comments because they were instructional. The information he shared was valuable and contained specific information as to the provenance (or lack thereof) of my watch. Make no mistake, my reactions to UB's posts were not that he called my watch a "fake" but rather that he did so without any real specifics, and that I still don't think saying it should be thrown away is anything but rude. As for his apology, I believe that forgiving, and asking for forgiveness are cornerstones to human interaction. When someone offers us an apology, we should either accept it, or offer a rebuttal to the apologizer on why you think you deserved one in the first place. I appreciate that UB offered an apology, but it's hard to imagine how he doesn't understand that someone would think his comments are rude and condescending when on multiple times he voiced the opinion that my watch was worthless. So UB, I accept your apology and would ask that you examine how you choose to interact with future new forum members, unless your goal is to drive potential newcomers away. In closing, I'm most disappointed, because despite having appreciated watches for a long time, I've never participated in any online forums regarding them. There is a lot of knowledge here, and I'd hoped to learn, and to participate, but if the culture is one of "it's a fake, it's worthless, throw it away," I have no interest in being part of that kind of dynamic. Sincerely, TJ
TJ, I can see where you are coming from and I think you've got balls to still be posting here. I'd like to suggest that a little more time spent on the site might help you understand where the 'throw it away' attitude has arisen. As a group, we collectively loath watches that are sold as something they are not - there are so many people that find their way here, having bought a watch only to discover it is a Franken or an outright fake. Members here have smashed fakes with hammers and painstakingly parted out Frankens to restore the individual parts to many correct watches at significant personal financial loss - because we want to stop others being duped by dishonest sellers. If you wish to keep your new purchase and wear it with pride knowing its one of a kind with a interesting backstory then all power to you. However, we shudder at the thought of it finding its way back onto the market to be sold on to another unsuspecting buyer, hence the suggestion that you take it out of circulation by 'throwing it away'. If it was a fake, for these reasons id be asking you myself to stamp on it. As it appears to be something else, its a little more complicated. I've recently had the pain of unwittingly buying a franken from a respected dealer and only discovered the situation due to the mechanical problems the mismatched parts started to cause. We hate hate hate this sort of thing. Stick with us and you may shift your viewpoint; of you don't you can be a valuable counterpoint for these sorts of posts (they come up a lot). I would suggest, having watched Uncle Buck post for some time, that he's often first to jumps in to help a newbie, does have a great deal of omega specific knowledge, and has a unique style that is entertaining and adds to the character of the forum. I'd also suggest that his apology was heartfelt and sincere. Hang around - if you decide we are all arseholes that's fair enough, but have a good look before you do.
Mothra- First of all, thank you for taking the time to respond, and thank you for sharing the knowledge as well as some insight in to the culture of the forum. I absolutely appreciate and support a culture which has derision for con-artists, charlatans, or ne'er do wells who misrepresent watches, or any product for that matter. I am in lock step with that opinion. As a brief aside, I mentioned that I am an appreciator, owner, and restorer of vintage Italian machinery, namely Ducati motorcycles and Alfa Romeo automobiles. I do much of my own work, but when it is work that I cannot do myself, I seek artisan craftsmen who practice the skill of bodywork and repair with pride, and "in the old way." I also go to great pains to restore the vehicle the way it was when it left the factory, even if that means that it may not have the kind of finish which would be possible, but not representative of the authentic product. Many cars are being "over restored" these days, to levels that were impossible to achieve in the era during which they were built. There is a book I'm fond of called "The Stewardship of Historically Significant Automobiles" and it examines the proper way to preserve and/or restore significant works of art. I like things that last, things that are worth owning, things which are permanent. The first watch that I really wanted (past a Boy Scout's Timex) was a Gruen Curvex, which was a gift I got on my 16th birthday. It is a quartz movement model, but back then I didn't even really understand the significance of a mechanical movement. I just liked its style, and I still own it. When I bought my first Speedmaster back in 1993 I did so because I loved the historical significance, and I loved the way it looked, and I loved the tactile sensation involved in winding and setting it. It is still my favorite watch. This all serves to shed some light on the values that I hold, so that you will understand what is important to me. Quite candidly, the individual that sold me the watch did not make any claims about its authenticity. I "assumed" it was a correct watch, and I appreciate the lesson that you and UB have shared. Put yourself in my shoes however. I may have been born yesterday but I was up all night. I'm no fool, I know what I know, and I know enough to know that there is a lot that I don't know. My point is, I spent a small amount of money on the watch, not a huge amount. I do like it, and wear it only occasionally. So I show up to the forum, eager to meet some like minded souls, and granted, there aren't that many of us out there (who still care about 50+ year old watches, the elegance of a Patek Philippe Calatrava, or the mechanical geekiness of a Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso), and am immediately told that my watch is essentially something to be thrown away. There was and is a way of sharing that ethos. Perhaps it gets tiring, explaining it over and over, but a few delicate words would have made a huge difference and eliminated a lot of hurt feelings and animosity. Believe me, I know what it's like to have a group on a forum where everyone is friendly, and a new guy comes in and stirs up garbage. I noted UB's number of posts and figured he was both knowledgable and popular. I even went to far as to apologize to the admin regarding my outburst against him. Again, I would just ask you how you'd feel if your first post, full of eagerness and the search for information was met with essentially a message that your watch was worthless. I will discuss the matter with the guy who sold it to me, because I believe he's a good guy and I don't know that he misrepresented it at all. I bought it 6 months ago, it was in an informal setting (not at his shop, of which he owns two I believe), and it was somewhat of an impulse buy. Caveat emptor certainly applies, but so does the reputation of the seller. I will take that up with him and base my opinion accordingly. You can be sure though, that should this watch ever change hands, (which I doubt it will), I will provide full disclosure as to its provenance, or lack thereof. Thank you again for your consideration. Sincerely, TJ
I'm sure your a very nice person with high integrity but I'll say one thing...if you're going to enjoy you're time here you'll need to develop some thicker skin. And that all I have to say about that.
Tell you what, shown us your Speedmaster. We love Speedmaster, and would love nothing better than the chance to gush over it. Just so you know its not just you, here's ulackfocus' (who can be pretty blunt) first vintage: http://omegaforums.net/posts/25320/ And heres an example of the fight I had with a dealer over a Franken: http://omegaforums.net/threads/watch-out-for-harrogate-vintage-watches.10984/ I've kept a careful watch in their site to make sure they didn't resell it again, but I do think maybe I should have parted it out and taken the hit.
One of the problems with communicating over the interwebs is that the ability to see each other is lost, and therefore the subtle little body language indicators that may keep a face to face conversation on an even keel aren't there. I've seen many posts on forums where a misunderstood reply has sparked WW3, highly entertaining to the onlookers but sometimes rather stressful for the participants. I'm pleased to see that this little episode is heading towards an amicable cessation of hostilities and hope that TJ can involve himself in our little gatherings and continue to learn and contribute to our often pedantic discussions on chapter rings, hand lengths, crown heights and other WIS related minutiae. (I know, an about turn from me, but forgiveness is one of my virtues )
I think TJ has potential. He's eloquent, ornery, restores motorcycles, and uses a bourbon backdrop for his watch photos. If he plays his cards right, this site could cost him a lot of money. Centenaries, straight-lugged Speedmasters, Pappy Van Winkel… the possibilities are endless.
Some would say I'm a masochist of the highest order. I have 5 Ducatis (none newer than 1995) and 4 Alfa Romeos (none newer than 1967), three of which are in the process of restoration (1 due to a clueless teenager who rear-ended our Giulia Sprint Veloce while my wife was driving it). Hell, I'm such an Italo-geek I even restored an old Lambretta to remind myself of my youth. I have not fallen so low as to become fascinated with Locmans yet. Anyone know what that's about? What am I missing? Maybe I should change my name to "The Whipping Boy." TJ
Nice catch there...some years ago Maker's Mark sent me these crazy rubber coasters and there's always one on my desk. I do like my bourbon, Maker's being my go to brand, but I also like Blanton's, and Basil Hayden. I have yet to be lucky enough to even see a bottle of Pappy in real life, much less drink it. Like I said, I'm but a novice collector, and none of my watches are very rare or unique. I can't say enough about my Speedmaster....it has performed flawlessly over over 20 years. I recently replaced the original band with a leather one just for fun, although I'd really prefer something of higher quality (anyone have any suggestions?) as this one doesn't seem to hold up to the finish of the watch itself. I bought this watch in 1993, as I said, it was my first "real watch." By the way, I literally took it off my wrist for the photo, so it's dirty and not in the proper "display" mode. TJ
Mothra-I posted a couple photos of my Speedmaster below, but here's a photo of it with the original band. Thanks for your acceptance and guidance. I do appreciate it. Sincerely, TJ Sorry for the crappy images. I need to make better versions. TJ
By the way, after further examination of the watch listed on Jackmond I am now convinced that it is the exact same watch. I sent an email to Jackmond but they are unable to tell me if the watch is still available (out of the country). It didn't make sense at first because I didn't think it through, but the number on the case back is not only identical to mine, but the position of the first digit is the same. Additionally, there are numerous other marks on the case back and the movement too, which are identical. It's obvious that the watch changed hands before I bought it. I don't know if Jackmond and the dealer I bought my watch from work together, or even if they're the same guy, but it's obviously the same watch. Thanks again, TJ
Nice speedy! I just got my first proper manual Speedmaster (actually my first manual watch) from another member on the forum and its just a couple of years older than yours, nut looks very similar. I think yours has 't's either side of the Swiss made still - is the tritium starting to colour? Mine is definitely yellow rather than white now... I'm still trying out straps. I suspect from your other interests this might be a bit modern for you, but I really like mine on this, and it's extremely comfortable and breathable
Beautiful...I like your strap very much. It looks like the one on my Carrera Re-Edition. Is it an Omega band? If not, where did you get it? My friend has a Speedy that has a nice red stitching on it, which I also like. That's also a very nice shirt, not many people wear dress shirts with french cuffs, it's definitely the mark of a man who cares about his appearance. I have a few in my closet. After all these years the tritium still looks pretty white, although I suppose if I compared it next to a brand new watch I'd see some yellowing. I have not babied this watch much at all. I don't wear any of my watches when I work in the garage and try not to bang them around, but other than that, mine has been worn a lot. For years it was my only "real watch" and so it got worn daily. Now it, and my GMT are in heavy rotation as daily use watches. Ciao! TJ