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Advice Needed - Currently being scammed

  1. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    I didn't want to stoop to this, but given that he's already negotiating with another poor soul....

    PSA-stay away from ALL blue SMP's and White/rose gold AT's. I can see he recently posted on an old add saying he has another blue SMP for sale.

    I'll leave feedback on WUS, but this is Horology_Chris from WUS. His PayPal and email tie back to the last name Hawley. His first name is most likely made up.
     
  2. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Oct 16, 2014

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    +1 they both chase the bank account not the person first. Closed account = Dead End
     
  3. UncleBuck understands the decision making hierarchy Oct 16, 2014

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    Watchguy, you are receiving advice from a top legal professional and the consummate gentleman, so please heed it !!
    (I know the exclamation point is supposed to be directly after the statement, but it looks so much more authoritative with a space after !)
     
  4. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    UncleBuck,

    I just got off the phone with Amex. American Express has the 63 pages of e-mails back and forth from me, as well as the invoice and receipt of payment. They didn't give me a chance to provide the issue in writing, but I was able to verbally tell the fraud rep and the e-mails tell the entire story. I'm hoping he didn't get too much of a head start to start shutting accounts down. I KNEW he was stalling for a reason.

    Thank you all! I hope that someone isn't naive enough to send this man or woman a bank wire :(

    For everyone out there, PAY WITH PAYPAL and PAY WITH A CREDIT CARD (not encouraging debt...just the vehicle for payment).
     
  5. alam Oct 16, 2014

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    How many postings the Seller had on WUS?
     
  6. Privateday7 quotes Miss Universe Oct 16, 2014

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    Mark,
    Sorry to hear this. Hope everything goes well for you.
     
  7. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Oct 16, 2014

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    Yes. That's where PayPal's HQ are.

    I think it's best to start with AMEX first since they paid PayPal, then PayPal paid the scammer. This means that AMEX will put the squeeze on PayPal for the funds, as they are the originator of the charge against your account. After that, it's up to PayPal (not you and not AMEX) to go after the scumbag for their reimbursement. PayPal might try to stall AMEX to try to recover the funds, but ultimately the transaction was insured by both of them.

    Make sure you keep in constant touch with AMEX's fraud department. They should side with you on this one.

    Good luck.
    gatorcpa
     
    noelekal likes this.
  8. alam Oct 16, 2014

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    Agree with Gator, several years ago some d bag tried to scam $50-60 from me during an eBay transaction and my dealings with PP were a nightmare. After three weeks of waiting I called my bank/CC and the charge was reversed within 24 hours. About ten days later I get an email from PP to tell me about the reserve charge! From what I can gather, it seems PP is doing much better these days but I would notify the bank/CC immediately and let PP run its course. I don't think you will loose your money but it may take some time. Good luck!
     
    noelekal likes this.
  9. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    Gator,

    That's sage advice---they mentioned they'd call me when the investigation was done. I'll make sure communication is more frequent than that!
     
  10. noelekal Home For Wayward Watches Oct 16, 2014

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    This thread has a humorous side. Every time it reappears as the top topic on the "all" forums page it appears with a different name as "Advice Needed - Currently Being Scammed By _______ (fill in name). Causes one to look twice while thinking forum members are scamming each other. When I post this reply it'll be me!

    Do appreciate this thread and the detail provided of this particular scam difficulty. Watch-buying is more of a minefield than buying used guns or used cars. I have blithely waltzed through Ebay and some watch sites for years, expecting nothing more treacherous than a sneaky re-dial that I wouldn't have recognized anyway, being such a watch rube. I've only been on the Forum about a month and have learned a lot about worn out clunks, misrepresentations, outright fakes, and scams of all kinds. Almost puts a damper on wanting to acquire vintage watches.
     
  11. Dogmann Oct 16, 2014

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    Hi Watchguy31-us,

    Firstly I'm really sorry to hear of your nightmare transaction but thankfully you did everything right and used both PayPal and a credit card to pay him giving you the maximum protection against just this type of thing happening.

    In my one experience of something going wrong and this was a long time ago when I really wasn't clued up on what I was doing I was actually sent a fake watch PayPal were excellent and even though the seller managed to pull a complete vanishing act I got still got all my money back so no complaints from me here and this is why I still continue to use PayPal.

    PayPal used to hold the money and it used to take 5 working days to withdraw funds to a bank account if I remember correctly the last time I had money to transfer out it only took 2 days. But in a case like yours their is no way PayPal wouldn't refund you your money so I would of just stuck with them for now and only used Amex as a last resort. But having seen your last post I realise you went for Amex solution so its no longer a problem. If I was you I would now definitely name and shame the person responsible on both the Forum you bought the watch on and any others you frequent, Glad to hear it is now resolved for you.

    Marc
     
  12. roach7 Oct 16, 2014

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    PayPal disputes can take time but ultimately they come through. Filing a chargeback with the cc company takes time as well but at least the charge is taken off your balance until the investigation is over.

    Best of luck.
     
  13. yande Oct 17, 2014

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    Watchguy31-US, this must have been a good deal. Correct me if I am wrong, but all the signs were there, and yet you still "pushed?" for a purchase. I assure you, I am fully aware of the adage, that "if you don't take a risk, you don't win Backgammon!" But honestly, did you feel 100% confident when you sent that initial payment, even though his Ref's had confirmed as such? I am not pointing fingers, just curious to your feelings...

    I'd like to think, given your initial description of the transaction, that I would have pulled out way before, but that would most probably depend on the carrot being offered, and me not being you
    .
    Posting negative feedback is not going to effect how and when you get your funds returned, once you take that action, and may help some other sole.. . Good luck.
    ..
     
  14. Watchguy31-us Oct 17, 2014

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    Yande,

    I felt fine while purchasing and was about 99% certain it was a fine deal (which I think is normal for a watch transaction), and then when the reference came back saying he had actually bought the watch already, that flipped to 1%.

    I reached out immediately and should have demanded the deal to be off right then. I gave the seller way to much leeway with the "send me pictures of the new watch and send me the tracking". The plug was pulled by Wednesday, but he delayed everything by two days.

    I'd say the "I'm send you pictures right now, but am so tired that I'm certain I will fall asleep" line on Tuesday night was it. At that point, I demanded payment or pictures. Right then...no delay.

    Yes, it was a good deal...2100 for an AT is probably 70% of market.

    That being said, it wouldn't have been the first time I got a watch at 70% of market.

    Hindsight is 20/20 and I think you can look at ANY watch deal you've ever made (outside of in person or with close friends) and find an element to it.

    That being said, that's why I insisted on PayPal and used a cc with a strong reputation to purchase. I didn't do that because I didn't trust this guy...I did that because that's how I purchase ALL watches.

    People will do anything for a quick buck.

    I have posted his name (Horology_Chris) on WUS & here.
     
  15. peatnick Oct 17, 2014

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    Good choice using Amex, they have sorted an airline issue for me in the past, hope they refund you too

    Came close to a trade with Horology_Chris 6 months ago, we haggled over conversion rates, not something I'd expect from a scammer . . .

    For what it's worth he did tell me two guys were using the WUS screen name at the time
     
  16. Watchguy31-us Oct 17, 2014

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    Yeah, perhaps the other guy got on and tried to "resell" his original stock? I have no idea. I will say this----the response time from this guy was not the work of a normal scammer. Part of me thinks he may have just shorted his inventory. Who knows. Anyway, this morning (the morning after I logged a paypal dispute and sent Amex after him), he's radio silent. All he needed to do was push the refund button.
     
  17. MikiJ Likes songs about Purple spices Oct 17, 2014

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    Unfortunately something similar happened to me a couple of years ago. I bought a Seamaster as advertised on another most reputable watch site. The only form of payment the seller would accept was a Bank Wire Transfer. I went through with it because the seller was from a reliable country and "NOS" rings my bell". A week later I get a USPS registered envelope from the seller. Inside I got a NOS pair of bright red Ray Ban sunglasses. I contacted a Mod from the forum I bought from and they immediately banned the seller.

    Me being a most loveable and forgiving individual I decided to file USPS PS Form 2855, Claim for Indemnity. Why not cause a little rain to fall on the dirt-bag that rained on me. The postal inspect I deal with explained that they will forward my open case to the Swedish police as we have a reciprocal prosecution agreement with the. They will issue an open warrent, but not search for him. However if he gets arrested or even stopped for a traffic violation, the fun begins. As it should ;-)
     
  18. MikiJ Likes songs about Purple spices Oct 17, 2014

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    OOPS - Forgot these...

    Description This is a very beautiful Omega Seamaster automatic men wristwatch in NOS condition and working perfectly! Dial: authentic and original Omega Seamaster dial, Original hands, Original Omega glass. Case: Authentic and original Omega Seamaster case made of solid stainless steel. Hermetic screwed back case made of solid and fine stainless steel, outside it has the words SEAMASTER AND WATERPROOF Measures: diameter without crown: 35 mm. The crown is authentic and original and it has the classic Omega symbol marked Movement: Authentic and original Omega Seamaster movement, it is a mechanical movement with automatic winding system. This watch has been made in 1957 according to specialized Omega catalogue. Any questions just send me an email. Thanks!
    [​IMG]

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  19. alam Oct 17, 2014

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    What caused you to conclude he was legit and honest, tilting the balance of trust on his favor for a wire payment?
     
  20. bill5959 Oct 17, 2014

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    Damn I do like the Swedes. Bought a beautiful Ikepod from one not long ago. The good news is that the police net will catch him. good to know about your USPS claim. Regards, bill