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Advice Needed - Currently being scammed

  1. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    Here is the summation of what has occured, and where I'm at. I'd like your thoughts on steps forward.


    I negotiated with a WUS member, (to remain nameless until I get my funds back) for several months this spring and summer. He had the white dial/RG hands AT up for sale that I've been looking for.

    We couldn't meet on a price, and more importantly a method of payment, so it was dropped.


    Fast forward to Saturday night, and he reached out to me saying he was going to relist the watch, and I would have the opportunity to buy it before he reposted it. I checked his references---and there were no bad reviews. He wanted a wire. I refused. He wanted Skrill. I refused. We agreed on Paypal. I reached out to all of his references on Sunday, but they were 100% positive across the board, so I went ahead and paid his PayPal invoice Monday morning.


    Monday afternoon, one of the references got back to me, and said that he actually bought the AT that I was buying in May. I reached out to XXXX, asking what the deal was....and he stated he's a watch dealer, and has multiple AT's and the one he was selling me was actually brand new. I asked for a picture of the watch, with a piece of paper next to it with my name on it, to be sent Monday night. He agreed. It never came. He did apologize Tuesday morning and promise he'd get pictures out Tuesday.


    I responded with that isn't good enough---he needed to provide proof of the watch existed, as well as proof of shipping by close of business on Tuesday. He e-mailed me in the middle of the day saying he shipped the watch, but tracking wouldn't be e-mailed to him until later (BS). He then stated he did receive the tracking e-mail, but couldn't e-mail it to me until later that night (BS). I then got an e-mail at midnight about how he was tired and laying there uploading the pictures to me, but was just so certain he'd fall asleep before they were done.

    I told him I was contacting paypal first thing on Wednesday morning to put a hold on the transaction. He said he'd get me everything in 12 hours. Almost exactly 12 hours later, he comes to me with a story about how his Uncle won't let him sell the watch anymore, and he needs to just cancel the transaction and will be refund me my money. Oh, and he has some magical deal with DHL where he can ship something, and they just sit there and hold the package for 24 hours before it goes out. So, he went and picked it up.

    This morning, of course, I get an e-mail from him stating he can't figure out how to refund the payment on paypal. I have already logged a dispute on Paypal....and I can escalate on the 20th to a claim.

    I paid for this via CC on paypal-----do I just go to Amex and take this up with them? I just want it to be over. I'm DONE buying for any private sellers on these sites----it's gotten out of hand at this point.

    Thoughts? Do I blast this guy on WUS, or just leave it alone?
     
    noelekal likes this.
  2. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Oct 16, 2014

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    Interesting - I remember the actual watch in question.

    I would just escalate to the CC company, let them fight it out for you.

    Good Luck
     
  3. MikiJ Likes songs about Purple spices Oct 16, 2014

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    Dispute the payment with both PayPal and American Express. Hard to believe that PayPal will do much if payment has already left the coop. However American Express can be a real "Mother".

    Remember the most important rule: "Buy the Seller, not the watch"!
     
  4. Hijak Oct 16, 2014

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    I wouldn't blast this guy on WUS untill you get your money back, then I'd let it rip! What an asshat.:thumbsdown:
     
    Dogmann, Darlinboy and citizenrich like this.
  5. Mothra Oct 16, 2014

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    Paypal have been pretty effective and fast for me, but you need the holy trinity. Paypal. Amex. Slate him on WUS.
     
    Als 27, Dogmann and citizenrich like this.
  6. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    I believe I'll get payment back----I'm just trying to figure out the order of operations here.

    DLT---the frustrating thing is that the original buyer of the watch actually got it He just decided to sell it a couple more times, lol.
     
  7. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Oct 16, 2014

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    What the duck is wrong with these guys? Are they junk boxes or just creepy foreign types from places where ethics is a punchline to a joke.

    yeah, that's right: some cultures suck. It's a cop-out to say "hurdur, well there's bad apples in every bunch". True. It's just that some batches are fully rotten. There's a reason why there are blanket nations where you can't conduct any business by mail unless you want to pay 40 cents on the dollar to insure yourself...

    please don't ban me lolzzzz
     
    repoman likes this.
  8. X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Oct 16, 2014

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    Once you go to Amex, it is completely out of PayPals hands. It will probably take you longer in the long run do do it through Amex.

    I know it completely sucks, but be patient and let PP try to work it out first.
     
    citizenrich likes this.
  9. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    If I submit an Amex dispute...it cancels out the Paypal dispute. Do I just go for it and leave this in the hands of Amex?

    Or do I give him one more shot just to refund it? I mean, I have an e-mail from this guy saying he's going to refund me. Any ideas?
     
  10. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    X350----gotcha, lol. Same thoughts.
     
  11. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Oct 16, 2014

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    Yes, this is correct. Paypal uses very complex algorithms to figure out when to release funds. my fraternity brother wrote a lot of 'em. Go, DarkRob!!

     
  12. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    Yeah, I'll just be patient. This is brutal!!!
     
  13. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Oct 16, 2014

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    It sucks to get hustled. Especially considering your're no idiot. at least you seem pretty wise to me.

    it seems like u knew something was fishy right away and you were able to predict his cow dung (BS) as it was coming at you - don't you feel insulted????
     
  14. ulackfocus Oct 16, 2014

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    The larger & more popular the mechanical watch hobby gets, the more thieves and scammers will try to bilk us.

    Leave the guy negative feedback on WUS, Watchnet, and everywhere else you can.
     
    Archer likes this.
  15. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    Is there a time period constraint here? Let's assume this dude is delaying because there is an advantage in his favor the longer this goes on. Am I worse off tomorrow than I am today? Was logging the PayPal dispute (which can be escalated to a claim on 10/20) as good as I can do?

    I just looked up the specifics...the PayPal charge appears to be a CA address. Are all PayPal charges there?

    The seller was supposedly based in London.
     
  16. UncleBuck understands the decision making hierarchy Oct 16, 2014

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    Isn't this a great advert for wearing protection when meeting new friends?

    Watchguy, my hat is off to you for doing it right and being able to choose which recourse is the best instead of lamenting no recourse!.
    Your principles and honor define who you are and his certainly indicate what he is.

    May the Mod's use this for future noob introductions?

    Best of luck, in my experience AmEx is a hammer when protecting it's customers, no paypal experience but it makes sense to use the
    proper chain.
     
  17. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Oct 16, 2014

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    Everything's really been covered by others here, all I'll add is good on you for going the paypal/CC route, nobody ever regrets the extra %% when they end up in your position.
     
  18. SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Oct 16, 2014

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    Go through the credit card company ASAP. Send them an explanation like you posted here and copies of all your email & SMS communications with him. They will have your money back pretty soon.

    Don't wait for paypal and don't give him time to start closing bank accounts down.
     
    repoman likes this.
  19. Watchguy31-us Oct 16, 2014

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    Thanks OF!

    I'm going to let it go as it's already 7pm here. Tomorrow morning, if no refund has appeared (I'm certain it will not have), I'll send AMEX in with a hammer.

    PayPal seems like it may be handcuffed by the existence of the funds, which are undoubtedly gone. I'm not really worried about the timing of the refund, I'm instead worried about the actual refund. In the original invoice, the seller stated to contact him through his email...so my email chain is tied directly to the transaction.
     
  20. repoman Oct 16, 2014

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    Kudo's to you for saying no to a wire or other similarly unprotected methods of payment - sometimes in the heat of the moment and the quest to score a nice piece, a persons' resolve can weaken. I have zero tolerance for online purchasing shenanigans. If your account of what has happened is accurate, and I have no reason to doubt you, this was fishy when he asked for a wire, and a 100% scam as soon as the other guy he already bought the watch. Please leave negative feedback asap on all the major watch forums to shut this guy down.