Hello forum members, I'm looking at a 1967 Bulova diving watch. It has an 11 Alac movement which I am not familiar with. I haven't been able to find much on the internet to indicate the quality of the movement and ease of repair and am hoping someone could assist. Is this a solid movement or should I stay away? The condition of the movement is another story, I know. Thanks in advance. Michael
Bulova made some very nice dive watches in this time frame - I have this Snorkel that is from 1963 that I really like: It has one of these "alphabet soup" calibers inside, so an 11AFACD... On the movements, my general feeling is that they tended to be maybe a bit more complicated than they needed to be. Some of these have parts that are discontinued and can be hard to find, so condition is important with these movements. They made quite a few variations of these movements, so some are harder to get parts for than others. Another thing to be aware of is that in this time frame Bulova, as well as some other makers, were using sealed mainspring barrels. The idea here is that the mainsprings would never need replacing since they were considered "unbreakable" at that time, so the barrels were sealed on some watches in such a way that they could not be opened without destroying the barrel drum or lid. Of course there is no such thing as an unbreakable mainspring, and eventually the braking grease inside the barrel needs to be renewed. Now back in the day these companies supplied brand new sealed barrels, with a new mainspring inside, ready to just drop in place in the movement. But Bulova is not the same company it once was, so the only sealed barrels out there now are what is left over from production decades ago. Now I just checked the Jules Borel web site, and they show the sealed barrel for the 11ALAC movement with a price, but that is not necessarily a guarantee that they actually have them in stock, so if you have a watchmaker in mind to service this watch, I would ask them about parts availability. Some makers like Zodiac are very difficult to find these sealed barrels for, as almost all of them have dried up over the years, so when I am asked about one of those I just assume they can't be bought. Longines also used these sealed barrels in this time frame, and for some movements they are still out there, and some not - for example for the Cal. 431 Ultrachron (I have serviced a bunch of these), the barrels are still available: But for the 341, they are all discontinued. Note that the date of production on the one above is 2010 - I have not seen a later date on any of these, so the supply of these will also eventually dry up. Now with the companies I've mentioned so far, Bulova tends to have the easiest barrel in terms of being able to open it, replace the spring, and closing it back up. Zodiac and Longines barrels tend to have more crimping done on the them that makes this difficult to do. So overall good movements that if they are in good shape will run well, but they do have some drawbacks. Hope this helps. Cheers, Al
Al, This is very helpful, thank you for the information and the pictures. As always, your contributions here are tremendous and much appreciated. Here's the watch in question. The bezel is reminiscent of the Seamaster 300, the dial has a simple and classic look to it and the lollipop hands add some nice character. My research suggests that they're original. Again, I'm new to this and could very well be wrong on all accounts. The edges on the lugs look good (to my eye at least) which I take as a positive sign. The crown I'm unsure of. It's not signed (I have other photos sent by the seller), but I've seen three different crowns on this watch during my search, one of them not signed, which tells me nothing. I suspect it would have been signed. It also appears to have an applied logo which I've come to appreciate since joining the forum. I'm considering it as a fun, daily wearer. I like the look of it. If the movement looks ok (I'd appreciate some feedback) and no one here has any major reservations, I'll see if we can agree on the price. Here are pictures of the movement. Not the best photos. Separately, are people here collecting spare parts as well as the watches in preparation for service needs in the future? I haven't given that much thought, but based on Al's reply, seems like that would be a good idea. Though maybe the proliferation of 3-D printing will make it easy to manufacture parts in the future. Thanks again, Michael
Ooooh nooooo.... someone's mentioned 3d printing of parts on a thread AL IS ALREADY POSTING ON... MD, Al is not supportive for reasons that include pesky laws of physics and compound parts with complex materials.... off to hide now.
I'm not trying to stir the pot. I've gone back and read some of those posts. I'm simply looking at things from a practicality perspective. As I'm newer to this, my initial focus has been on what I like to look at, learning about some of the various details that make watches interesting (like an applied logo for example), etc. Finding a good example of a watch you like is a challenge. But as I've been spending time here and learning more, I'm becoming aware that in addition to finding the watch, keeping it running for another 30 plus years is going to be another challenge. Al's post above gives me a much better understanding of this other challenge that we're all faced with. So I'm truly curious, are people here stock piling parts while they can find them for the watches they own? Or are you sticking to only certain movements where you have a greater degree of confidence parts will be available in the future? I'm just imagining the disappointment of adding a piece you enjoy to your collection and then if / when it fails not being able to wear it because you can't get it repaired. If this has been covered in another thread, please point me in that direction so I can read up. I mentioned 3D printing as a thought and Al of course would know the limitations. But, who knows how advanced the process will be 20 or 30 years from now? That being said, something that I'm sure is obvious to the more seasoned collectors here, maintenance has just become a much bigger factor in my criteria for selecting a watch.
Two more things... First, great looking watch Al! Thanks for sharing. Second, does anyone have any thoughts regarding the condition of the movement I posted above? I'm a bit dissuaded at the moment, however as a general exercise in learning how to evaluate a movement, I'd appreciate some feedback. Cheers, Michael
MD, the printing thing comes up a lot. Al's position is well summarised here. http://omegaforums.net/threads/calling-all-chronomanics.14546/#post-165184 That helped me realise that probably even 20 years of progress is not going to be enough.... Some of the members with larger collections have been stockpiling spares for sometime - ilve recently spent six months looking for a donor movement for a constellation. Bits are out there if you need them, but patience is helpful.
Mothra, Thanks for the reply. That's the post I read earlier today, duly noted. I'll definitely start thinking about keeping an inventory of parts / movements for future maintenance.
Hi MD - sorry I just got back to this thread. Nothing really jumps out at me with the movement photo. It should be serviced for sure, and that is the only way you will really know what condition the movement is in. There are things that you can only see with the movement completely apart. But if this came to me for evaluation, I would put it under the microscope and take a look at all the exposed jewels to check for oil, debris, and wear - also the bushings that I can see in the photo because if anything is going to be worn, it would be those. Cheers, Al
Thank you for the additional follow up Al. This thread has been very helpful in changing my perspective regarding collecting. A rite of passage to being a collector I'm sure. I hope you continue to feel better.
Old post (very old post) but have been looking at these so thought I'd update with some info I've come across. The version referenced above is a Bulova Snorkel "J". Made for 1 year in 1967. Available with Black or White dials. Slightly larger than a traditional Snorkel of the period at 36mm. Movement is still 11-ALAC (11-ALACD had date). It had full lumed sword style hands and bakelite bezel. Rare bird, and gorgeous. Original bracelet would have been a JB Champion as pictured in the ad.
M these are cool watches, plani yet rarely seen in good shape. Here are are couple examples, note dial and patina to compare with your target Cheers
Wow, fun surprise to see this resurrected. These are cool watches. I never picked one up. @bristnj if you acquire one would love to see some pics. Are those yours Spencer?
I wonder if a sealed barrel could be replaced with a non sealed substitute of the same size and number of teeth, etc.
This one is available via IG. Seller (interesting.watches) is asking $2600. Looks to be in great condition. This is not the one I am hunting, but if someone was interested it’s a beauty! Assuming all works out, will post some pics of the one I am after soon!